The Six Most Common Karyotypes The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s ) XX – Most common form of female XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter) XY – Most common form of male XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
Even the biological sexes are complex, sex and gender are two different subjects.
@Peaceandnamaste From that revealing article, "In other words, if you want to know whether someone is male or female, it may be best just to ask." That pretty much concludes there are 2 genders with some variations, but within each gender. So, the scientific answer remains, 2.
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s syndrome): Female btw XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter syndrome): Male btw XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people (Jacobs Syndrome): Male btw XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births (Klinefelter syndrome): Male btw
Deficient or extra chromosome is a disease causing genetic disorder whether it's sex chromosomes like the examples you mentioned or Trisomy 21, having three chromosomes at position 21 instead of a pair. (Down syndrome) the most common chromosomal anomaly in humans.
SW-User
@SoulKey Down Syndrome affects autosomal chromosomes and not sex chromosomes so that's not relevant to the discussion. And even people with normal sex chromosomes like XX or XY can have ambiguous genitalia due to hormonal imbalance.
@MarkPaul Not quite correct. Despite the fact that we choose black on white as the most common for text against a background - making it an extremely common choice for contrasts - we don't say there are only two colours, white and black. We say there's a wide and subtle range of greys between black and white, or we refer to a virtual infinity of colours in the spectrum. We recognise "black and white thinking" as extremely limiting and flawed.
So it's the same here. Thinking in terms of the norms of sex as only the two opposites negates the reality of much variation in between. A spectrum is never just north or south, ultraviolet or infrared: it is a sliding scale.
The article noted that it's not unusual for women to have within them the male cells from the fetus of their boy baby in utero, or for men to carry female cells from their mother that they absorbed from her during gestation. And that these cells behave according to their genetic sex irrespective of the carrier's external sexual appearance. And that if there are enough of them, this can change certain features of their hormones and behaviours. They still don't fully know the extent of the influence and intend more research to discover the effects, especially on health issues.
@hartfire Not quite a practical argument. Yes, there are variations and a myriad of distinctions all that can be corroborated with scientific evidence. And, that is important. But, just like someone with brown hair has different shades of other colours within the collection of total hair they have, it is common to declare and list "brown hair" rather than identify every shade covering each strand of hair. That's not practical.
For practical purposes there are males and females. There are effeminate males, there are manish females. There are males who feel their feminine side and males who deny they have a feminine side. There are females who are tomboys and females who are girlish. All these variations and feelings are individually valid and okay. For practical purposes though, there are males and females. There is no need for a pronoun badge, facial hair, or an excuse for individuals choosing to feel one way or another. For practical purposes there are males and females. PERIOD.
@MarkPaul Ah - thank you for clarifying your point of view. Yep, I get it. For convenience we often need brevity - and often that necessitates omissions of a more subtle reality. Though it's not uncommon to say light brown hair, or dark auburn. Or an author might write of a man's rusty beard, implying all the hues of rust.
I think the caution necessary is not to mistake brevity of terminology for reality.
In the 80s and 90s, as a young artist, I lived many years in inner city Sydney (Australia), one of the LGBTQI+ capitals of the world. I knew many gays, a few transexuals and a couple of intersex people - as well as people who were effeminate or tomboyish but in all other ways cis het. In Sydney, it was common for me to meet and get to know them. For some reason many are attracted to the arts.Most were very open to deep discussions on the issues. I learned how society treated them, their processes of self discovery, their inner lives and emotions, and their journeys. No two were the same, and yet there were common elements and themes. There are some who are born so on the cusp that there is no way to tell which sex or gender they are, and they themselves don't want to be boxed in to one or the other. I can't see anything wrong with being non-binary. I became convinced that our wider societies do need to learn how to become more informed, understanding and accepting. Even now, living a semi-traditional rural area, I know exactly which members of our community don't fit the conventional norms for male or female - and specifically how - and very few of the conventional redneck types object to them. One farmer-mechanic-earthmover, when I asked what he thought of LGBTQI+ people answered, "I don't care what anyone is so long as they don't try to stick it up me." Maybe Oz is just a different culture, more secular and less religious. As a nation we voted overwhelmingly in favour of a change to the definition of marriage in the constitution, permitting two people of the same sex to marry and all have the same legal rights as het couples. Each year, Sydney celebrates the second largest gay mardis gras on the planet. It has done much to help people see gay people and realise they are not so different from everyone else. In fact, each individual is so much more than just their sex, gender and orientation.
I'm a cis het female myself, 66, and married 39 years with no kids.
@hartfire colours are on a spectrum (literally). Gender is not. There are males and females and that is it. Your analogy is completely misleading and false.
@TheGreatestEver123 Oh, dear. Did you read the article above that was recommended by Peaceandnamaste? [u]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1[/u]/
If you read it & still believe that there's a spectrum between male & female, then perhaps you and I think in different ways.
Let's say that with most human traits there is a spectrum, with the largest numbers of the populations clustering in a bell curve around the centre mark. Let's use IQ as a typical example of a particular type of trait.
Now let's reverse that, but change the look of the curve. We have the largest numbers of the population clustering as fully male on one side, roughly 48% of adults. On the opposite end are the fully female adults, roughly 50% of adults. In between is a hyperbolic curve dropping rapidly and then stretching horizontally towards the centre mark. The whole of the low population totals only 2% of the population - but among them is an almost infinite range of variables of male or female physical and neurological traits. At the exact centre are people with both male and female external physical traits. Although most of us carry two chromosomes that determine our sex - xx or xy - each chromosome carries hundreds to thousands of genes. A chromosome contains hundreds to thousands of genes. And these are not always purely xx or xy. Like every other genetic trait, there can be recessives which get switched on by chance or by environment, or there can be natural mutation.
I believe that 2% is what I'd call common. For instance, bipolar, schizophrenia, and autism spectrum all come in at 1% of the population - and yet within my wider social circle of acquaintances I have 4 friends on the AS, have been very close to 6 bipolar people and have met several who suffer schizophrenia. Two percent means it's inevitable that most of us will meet intersex people at large high schools, in the workplace and anywhere where there are lots of people. In my view, it's common enough to deserve awareness, understanding and acceptance. If it were something like one in million, I'd forgive myself for not knowing about it or understanding it.
I have met people here who really believe that it's the norms that should determine our idea of reality. The idea of it being "practical" to me just means that it's convenient for the majority. I can understand that. But it has a terrible price for the people who don't fit.
@TheGreatestEver123 [quote]Gender is not. There are males and females and that is it.[/quote] Gender is a continuum from masculine to feminine. Male and female are sexes.
@Sharon yes, so there are no ‘genders’. And ‘man’ and ‘woman’ refer to biological sex, not gender. All our identification documents note our biological sex, not gender. Gender is basically meaningless when it comes to separate women’s spaces. That’s based on biology.
