I'm all for transgender rights.

@dondon

It very much does matter what they feel like. It's easy to dismiss when you have not experienced it yourself.
Remember, you ought too walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you go ahead and judge them

@Pikachu No it doesn't, you can feel all sorts of things which don't make them true. Imagine a grown man identifying as a kid and going to a childrens class 0_o

@dondon

I don't see a reason to use hypothetical examples. Let's not muddy the waters with questions of age. We've got a perfectly specific, real world example right here.

There are people who simply do not feel that their gender matches the body they are in. A lot of people, apparently.
So where's the harm?

@Pikachu The harm is forcing it on others, just because you feel a certain way about yourself, doesn't make it so. The whole reason we separate man and women is so that both feel more comfortable and in sports because women otherwise have no chance to win. Besides it's still a very small minority and you should force a minority rule on the vast majority of people.

@dondon

Well i guess i wonder what the big deal is.

Let's take bathrooms for instance. One of the big shit storms is around transgenders using their chosen bathrooms.
Well who really cares? You know what i hate about public bathrooms? They're fucking [i]public[/i] lol.
So how concerned do we really need to be about who the next fucker in the stall is?

My two cents? Seems to make the most sense to use the bathroom you're passing as.

@Pikachu No the opposite, use the bathroom you were biologically born as, since that is what they are all delusions aside. If they want to feel and be transgender that is up to them, but it stops when they wnat to force it on other people eg. being obligated to call them by their chosen gender, using bathrooms and locker rooms and certainly competing in sports.

@dondon

So where's the harm in a transgender man who is passing using the men's room?
That's what i want to hear from you. Where's the harm?

And how much of a delicate snowflake does one have to be that calling a transgender woman "her" is such trial?
You call people by their chosen pronoun or name all the time. Why should this be different?

@Pikachu The fact that they are not the gender they pretend to be and the fact that in canada you can now go to jail for that. There is an incredible amount of harm in, shifting from reality to fantasy. The same as with people getting offended, just because you have a different personal view, doesn't give you any right to force people to bow to your delusions.

@dondon

[quote]There is an incredible amount of harm [/quote]

So that's your assertion, can you be more specific?
Another guy walks into the bathroom and goes into the stall. Do you need to know what his genitals look like? Is it important that you know if he was born a woman?

Don't just tell me that there is harm. Tell me what the harm is.

[quote]doesn't give you any right to force people[/quote]

I would say that you shouldn't be forced. But if you refuse to call a transgender woman "her" then socially you'll be viewed as an asshole in the same way that as anyone disrespecting another person

@Pikachu You are taking my words out of context, so we are done.
The correct quote was here: [quote]There is an incredible amount of harm in, shifting from reality to fantasy. [/quote]

And I'm not the asshole for deceiving people, people need to hear the truth even if it's inconvenient for them.

@dondon

[quote]There is an incredible amount of harm in, shifting from reality to fantasy.[/quote]

I hope you won't use this as an excuse to abandon the discussion.
I'm sorry if you felt i was trying to quote mine you. I just didn't feel that, that vague warning carried much meaning.
We are after all discussing something specific so i see no need to be vague about it.
So please, go ahead. I'm listening.

[quote]people need to hear the truth even if it's inconvenient for them.[/quote]

Why? Why does a transgender woman need you to call her a man?
If a burly looking person wants you to call them jennifer instead of jeremy, why do you feel the need to refuse?