The police in Britain don't help themselves it has to be said. The violent way they "handled"the vigil following the murder of Sarah Everard (murdered, incidentally, by a serving police officer who already had more than a dodgy past), coupled with handling demonstrations by far right wing agitators , with a softly softly approach, then turning a blind eye to corruption within its own heirarchy, not to mention the excessive cosiness with the senior members of the tory party are just a few reasons why people in this country are losing fasith in the police.
@cyberdude28 The police force is always being extolled by authoritarian figures as role models. So, if they are to be placed on a pedestal, they need to show and prove they deserve such consideration, more so than Mr and Mrs Ordinary. Violently crushing a vigil which was meant as a peaceful protest, along with treating neo-nazi groups with kid gloves and having the chief of the Met Police up to her eyeballs in sleaze and corruption are just three examples of how they do not deserve such praise.
@cyberdude28 And so they [b]should[/b] do decent work. That's what they are supposed to do. They are supposed to work with the law without fear or favour. But we know not all of them do or even attempt to. So we're supposed to do nothing about corruption, malpractice and poltical interference and just accept it? If we are, that is a step to all-out authoritarianism and, yes, I will say it, fascism.
@jackieash I'm just saying it's easy for us to debate yet you and me don't really know what it's like to be a cop so our understanding can only go so far.
The violent way they "handled"the vigil following the murder of Sarah Everard
They handled that so-called "vigil" correctly, if anything they were too lenient. Those women ignored the COVID restrictions and were out simply to cause trouble. If those women had been men, people would be criticizing the police for going too easy on them.
@Lynda70 No they did not cause trouble. It was a peaceful vigil, and the police were very heavy handed. And don't ever forget it was a "police officer" that killed Sarah Everard.
That's not what I saw. The police were doing a very difficult job attempting to enforce COVID restrictions and keep people safe in the face of violent protesters.
And don't ever forget it was a "police officer" that killed Sarah Everard.
Yes, and those trouble makers wanted to make every other police officer suffer for it.
Don't you forget either that men are four times as likely to be assaulted or murdered in the street as women are. What is being done to make the streets safer for men and boys?
@Lynda70 There have been well documented reports abut the mysoginist attitudes from the police officers; a culture which has been allowed to grow around the force and the "good" officers did little or nothing to stop it.
It does no good to be talking about behaving under "COVID restrictions" when those supposedly looking after the interests of the population were repeatedly violating those restrictions.
The police's handling of the peaceful vigil only made matters worse for the police's reputation. And what is happening to counter this culture?
Knife and gun crime between males is another area where the police have failed to make any impression, and it is the community themselves trying to find solutions. It's not a case of either or....
@jackieash There are also well documented reports of institutional misandry in the police. Just consider their attitude to male victims of female perpetrated domestic abuse and female perpetrated violence in general for example.
The fact that some politicians consider the rules don't apply to them is no excuse for what those women did. Another lady, who outranks them all andactually is above the law, nevertheless set a very good example by obeying both the letter and spirit of the law when she sat alone at her husband's funeral -
There was no reason for women to hold their vigil/protest when they did. No one was meant to be out and about without good cause. They could have waited until after the pandemic, when they could have held a peaceful vigil/protest, but that would not have achieved their true aim. They were just out to cause trouble because they knew the police would be duty bound to take action. It was not a peaceful vigil, the whole purpose was to stir up anti-police feeling because of the actions of one police officer. Don't forget who it was who brought that particular police officer to justice.
Knife and gun crime .... It's not a case of either or....
I never suggested it was. I just pointed out that the streets are already much safer for women than they are for men. Some women just want the streets soley for themselves.
@Lynda70 Some men only want the streets for themselves. The peaceful protest turned violent only when the police became extremely heavy handed. You saythere was "no excuse" for the vigil to take place. Well, there were vigils around the country and there was no repitition of what happened in London. Maybe the problem is rooted in certain forces . So far from being an excuse, it was a fact and a reason, something even the Home Secretary referred to when she was talking abou the Met's failings. You don't think the culture of misogyny within the police force which results in a failure in that force in doing its duty properly is just cause? If you don't, therein lies the problem . And don't forget it was not just one bad police officer in the force. It is not solely mysognistic problems; there are also racial ad cultural failings of the forces, highlighted by the Home Secretary. Saying it is was "one officer" is dangerously naive.
When was the last vigil/protest by men wanting to "reclaim the streets" for men. I must have missed it.
The police were simply trying to enforce the law. The women became violent because they wanted to be above the law. As I said, if they had been men, the only criticism of the police would be that they were too lenient.
There was no reason for that so-called "vigil" to be held when it was, other than to cause trouble and to goad the police into taking action so those women could claim victimhood.
You don't think the culture of misogyny within the police force which results in a failure in that force in doing its duty properly is just cause?
Yet you totally ignore the equally prevalent culture of misandry, resulting in the police failing to discharge their duty properly. Would you support a group of men acting as those women did?
@Lynda70 So you want to add misandry into the mix of failings? Very well, into the pot it goes. I have not ignored misandry at all, and hoped you wouldn't mention it because it's another stain on their record.
If there was such a protest of men against female violence, I would support that. Because Iam against all kinds of violence. One of my best friends had a horrible time growing up with her parents frequently knocking hell out of each other and on occasion landing in hospital. Father, as well as mother.
So you want to add misandry into the mix of failings? Very well, into the pot it goes.
I glad you recognize there is also misandry in the police. It's at laest as big a problem as misogyny and racism.
I know male victims of female perpetrated domestic abuse too. I've also had evenings out ruined or been seroiusly inconvenienced by bolshie women who think they can do as they please with total impunity.
@Lynda70 I have never said there wasn't. Maybe the victims of misandry need to speak out more. But it certainly doesn't paint the force in a very good light. There looks like it's fragmented and morale bad. A fragmented force wth bad morale leads to the sorts of problems the Home Secretary has highlighted.
@jackieash Thanks for the thumbs up. :) I've really enjoyed this conversation; it's a change to have a frank exchange of views while being civil to each other :)
