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SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
I don't think everyone does, but certainly social media and this site particularly there are people who engage this way at all times. I certainly do it a lot.
Speaking for myself, this is the only place I do that. I don't hash out my political beliefs amongst friends and co-workers because of the fraught nature of politics these days. It's extremely polarized. The reasons for that are many, shifting, overlapping, and complicated. It's easier to stay anonymous here and have heated discussions in safety and privacy as having the "wrong" opinion in Western society exposes you to consequences that are sometimes unfair and unwarranted.
I see 3 users on this thread who are promoting seemingly fair, simple measures to reduce this.
All 3 of them treat me with contempt and hatred and don't speak to me sincerely or genuinely. Their preference would be for me to shut up. If push came to shove, they likely would support people like me being sanctioned much like they do in the UK if I continue to express my opinions on politics.
I roll my eyes and snear at their suggestions as they are insincere and selfish. What they advocate is a return to before, when progressive, liberal ideals were ubiquitous and shared my the majority.
Their comments are hypocritical.
Speaking for myself, this is the only place I do that. I don't hash out my political beliefs amongst friends and co-workers because of the fraught nature of politics these days. It's extremely polarized. The reasons for that are many, shifting, overlapping, and complicated. It's easier to stay anonymous here and have heated discussions in safety and privacy as having the "wrong" opinion in Western society exposes you to consequences that are sometimes unfair and unwarranted.
I see 3 users on this thread who are promoting seemingly fair, simple measures to reduce this.
All 3 of them treat me with contempt and hatred and don't speak to me sincerely or genuinely. Their preference would be for me to shut up. If push came to shove, they likely would support people like me being sanctioned much like they do in the UK if I continue to express my opinions on politics.
I roll my eyes and snear at their suggestions as they are insincere and selfish. What they advocate is a return to before, when progressive, liberal ideals were ubiquitous and shared my the majority.
Their comments are hypocritical.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SumKindaMunster It's not hypocritical, it's human nature. Respect is a two-way street. I see you repeatedly choose to start arguments with others on here in bad faith. You cynically dismiss whatever you don't agree with, you engage in a litany of logical fallacies to discredit people's points of view, and you consistently rely on your own conjecture to try to prove your points. In essence, you're creating a double standard with the people you talk to by holding them to a much higher burden of proof than you're willing to provide yourself
You said yourself that you come on here to discuss fraught, polarizing issues. The thing all these people who block or disagree with you are able to see that you can't is that you go out of your way to rile people up. It's hypocritical for you to play the victim here when you treat other people's perspectives with such a lack of respect
You said yourself that you come on here to discuss fraught, polarizing issues. The thing all these people who block or disagree with you are able to see that you can't is that you go out of your way to rile people up. It's hypocritical for you to play the victim here when you treat other people's perspectives with such a lack of respect
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
@TinyViolins No, and I just responded to a similar point in another thread.
I started to respond in depth, but just deleted it all.
Everything you accuse me of, you do the same.
You aren't sincere, you engage in double standards, and you ignore points and just keep pushing your agenda.
Sorry its frustrating to you. I don't agree with you, but I personally have no malice towards you.
I doubt you could say the same and have it be believable.
I started to respond in depth, but just deleted it all.
Everything you accuse me of, you do the same.
You aren't sincere, you engage in double standards, and you ignore points and just keep pushing your agenda.
Sorry its frustrating to you. I don't agree with you, but I personally have no malice towards you.
I doubt you could say the same and have it be believable.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SumKindaMunster It's not malice to call out problematic behavior. It's accountability. Whether or not you want to improve the quality of your conversations with people or to wallow in a victim complex is up to you.
What I've done to you is merely a response to the disrespect you initially showed me. I don't have these problems with any other user here besides this old Canadian hippy. You seem to have that problem a lot. Makes you wonder.
The only frustrating part is how you claim you no longer wish to argue with me, and then go on to start arguments on my posts. You can make your own posts espousing your own beliefs without needing to involve anyone else, but you choose to kick the hornets nest and then make a stink about it when you get stung
What I've done to you is merely a response to the disrespect you initially showed me. I don't have these problems with any other user here besides this old Canadian hippy. You seem to have that problem a lot. Makes you wonder.
The only frustrating part is how you claim you no longer wish to argue with me, and then go on to start arguments on my posts. You can make your own posts espousing your own beliefs without needing to involve anyone else, but you choose to kick the hornets nest and then make a stink about it when you get stung
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
@TinyViolins Who are you to hold me "accountable"? Hold yourself accountable. That's all you can do. It's not your God given right to hold me accountable because you don't agree.
The entirety of your disagreements with me have to do with the opinions I hold and value. You find them personally objectionable, because in your world, they are authoritarian and abusive.
I said before we have differing world views, and I respect that. I just don't agree and I will tell you empathically why.
Ok, if you say so. What you feel is disrespect is my personal style of debating. I'm sorry if my passion and frustration with your stated beliefs is objectionable to you. Again, I have no personal malice towards you. We are just talking here. I find such things stimulating and interesting. I'm not intimidated by your accusations and immaturity as you have just as much responsibility for the tone and direction of our discussions as I do.
If I've told you I don't want to argue anymore with you, its specifically that argument we are having. It doesn't mean I don't want to engage forever. Not sure why I even need to justify this to you, it's a public forumn and you should have the self discipline to stop responding if you are frustrated with the conversation. You've done it before, not sure why I have to point this out to you.
As another point of clarity, I did not engage you here. You engaged me. I engaged you on the ICE question because I had engaged others on there making the same points. I guess that upset you. Ok, duly noted. It wasn't necessary and I will endeavor to not do it again.
You refer to HippyJoe as someone similar to me. That's interesting to me and I can sort of see the comparison. I don't engage with HJ because there is no reaching him. He doesn't listen or engage. My experience is that he isn't really paying attention, as I have caught him in many mistakes in my conversations in the past.
Here's what I did. I stopped engaging with him. I took it out of his hands, because that's all I could do. I don't constantly engage with him and then cry about it when he doesn't respond in the way I think is appropriate or fair.
Maybe you need to develop a thicker skin or do what others who have found me objectionable have done, and ignore me or block me. You have the power to solve this if it's so objectionable to you.
I am not changing, this works for me and I find this style of debate useful to me to process my beliefs and opinions. I really don't care if others don't like it. Plenty of people appreciate my contributions here, I don't care if you are not one of them.
The entirety of your disagreements with me have to do with the opinions I hold and value. You find them personally objectionable, because in your world, they are authoritarian and abusive.
I said before we have differing world views, and I respect that. I just don't agree and I will tell you empathically why.
What I've done to you is merely a response to the disrespect you initially showed me.
Ok, if you say so. What you feel is disrespect is my personal style of debating. I'm sorry if my passion and frustration with your stated beliefs is objectionable to you. Again, I have no personal malice towards you. We are just talking here. I find such things stimulating and interesting. I'm not intimidated by your accusations and immaturity as you have just as much responsibility for the tone and direction of our discussions as I do.
If I've told you I don't want to argue anymore with you, its specifically that argument we are having. It doesn't mean I don't want to engage forever. Not sure why I even need to justify this to you, it's a public forumn and you should have the self discipline to stop responding if you are frustrated with the conversation. You've done it before, not sure why I have to point this out to you.
As another point of clarity, I did not engage you here. You engaged me. I engaged you on the ICE question because I had engaged others on there making the same points. I guess that upset you. Ok, duly noted. It wasn't necessary and I will endeavor to not do it again.
You refer to HippyJoe as someone similar to me. That's interesting to me and I can sort of see the comparison. I don't engage with HJ because there is no reaching him. He doesn't listen or engage. My experience is that he isn't really paying attention, as I have caught him in many mistakes in my conversations in the past.
Here's what I did. I stopped engaging with him. I took it out of his hands, because that's all I could do. I don't constantly engage with him and then cry about it when he doesn't respond in the way I think is appropriate or fair.
Maybe you need to develop a thicker skin or do what others who have found me objectionable have done, and ignore me or block me. You have the power to solve this if it's so objectionable to you.
I am not changing, this works for me and I find this style of debate useful to me to process my beliefs and opinions. I really don't care if others don't like it. Plenty of people appreciate my contributions here, I don't care if you are not one of them.
TinyViolins · 31-35, M
@SumKindaMunster
This site is an online community, and like any other community, members tend to hold each other accountable when someone is disturbing the peace. I'm not the one going onto other people's comments to dispute, deny, and dismiss what they have to say, with the ironic exception being this one. Though to be fair, you were calling me out.
That's completely false. I don't go onto your comments and posts to start debates with you, you go onto mine to peddle things that are verifiably false or undetermined at best and use these to attack my positions with. I care about being as truthful as possible without succumbing to partisan biases. When the facts are being disparaged and denied, I get miffed. If something is an opinion, I'll state it as my opinion. We can disagree there. I'm very careful to keep the two separate. I don't think you hold yourself to the same principle.
I thoroughly research the claims I make. Even if it's frustrating dealing with things I know to be misinformation or people that are willfully obtuse, I still feel comfortable debating it. I don't have to worry about putting a partisan spin on the things I say. The facts are the facts whether people like them or not.
The only time I stopped responding to you was when my dog died. I had much bigger things to worry about back then, and when I came back I had no interest in reviving a month's old conversation with someone that's just gonna flippantly dismiss my response as bullshit anyway.
I try to reserve my blocks for people who are intentionally vile or aggressively stupid. I never really break from those parameters. While I do think your point of view is extremely one-sided, your relentless cynicism definitely challenges me to put the facts I have out there, and I like keeping the conversation around for the sake of education. It's like sharpening a knife against a rock.
I'm well aware. That's literally the root of the problem. You know you're not going to change your mind but still debate people anyway. You're just aggravating people into proving something to you that you're never going to accept. It's just kinda sad really
Who are you to hold me "accountable"?
This site is an online community, and like any other community, members tend to hold each other accountable when someone is disturbing the peace. I'm not the one going onto other people's comments to dispute, deny, and dismiss what they have to say, with the ironic exception being this one. Though to be fair, you were calling me out.
The entirety of your disagreements with me have to do with the opinions I hold and value
That's completely false. I don't go onto your comments and posts to start debates with you, you go onto mine to peddle things that are verifiably false or undetermined at best and use these to attack my positions with. I care about being as truthful as possible without succumbing to partisan biases. When the facts are being disparaged and denied, I get miffed. If something is an opinion, I'll state it as my opinion. We can disagree there. I'm very careful to keep the two separate. I don't think you hold yourself to the same principle.
you should have the self discipline to stop responding if you are frustrated with the conversation. You've done it before, not sure why I have to point this out to you.
I thoroughly research the claims I make. Even if it's frustrating dealing with things I know to be misinformation or people that are willfully obtuse, I still feel comfortable debating it. I don't have to worry about putting a partisan spin on the things I say. The facts are the facts whether people like them or not.
The only time I stopped responding to you was when my dog died. I had much bigger things to worry about back then, and when I came back I had no interest in reviving a month's old conversation with someone that's just gonna flippantly dismiss my response as bullshit anyway.
Maybe you need to develop a thicker skin or do what others who have found me objectionable have done, and ignore me or block me. You have the power to solve this if it's so objectionable to you.
I try to reserve my blocks for people who are intentionally vile or aggressively stupid. I never really break from those parameters. While I do think your point of view is extremely one-sided, your relentless cynicism definitely challenges me to put the facts I have out there, and I like keeping the conversation around for the sake of education. It's like sharpening a knife against a rock.
I am not changing, this works for me
I'm well aware. That's literally the root of the problem. You know you're not going to change your mind but still debate people anyway. You're just aggravating people into proving something to you that you're never going to accept. It's just kinda sad really
SumKindaMunster · 51-55, M
@TinyViolins Sorry about your dog. I've lost a few over the years. It sucks. I can tell you that while you will never forget them, over time you heal and it becomes a comfortable but bittersweet memory. I hope its less painful for you now.
I'm not responding to the rest of this. I moved on and YOU chose to re-engage. Remember that.
Again, have a great weekend.
I'm not responding to the rest of this. I moved on and YOU chose to re-engage. Remember that.
Again, have a great weekend.
TangledUpInBlue · F
@SumKindaMunster thank you for your honest answer