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Is it wrong to call women "Sweetheart" on the phone?

I work as a telephone agent. My last caller insisted on calling me "sweetheart" during the call. He was an older gentleman. I get this from time to time, especially from older men in the American South. When guys talk like that, I feel a mix of feelings as a woman, both valued but also patronized.

Do you think it's good or bad when men talk to women this way? Why do you think so?

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DarkHeaven ·

The reason you feel conflicted is because it’s a term of endearment (which could be endearing) that assumes a level of intimacy that doesn’t exist. If my wife calls me baby… I don’t blink an eye. That intimacy exists for us and doesn’t feel out of place. It would if some person (man or woman) called me baby where there is no intimacy to be assumed with a term of endearment. It is the same with sweetheart. @sarabee1995 and I have talked about this many times over the years as some men on here will also use terms of endearment misplaced, since no level of intimacy like that exists between them and I. In the south, I think women were more so viewed as property for a long time where any man could assume a level of intimacy with any women with or without her consent and it’s looked at differently. Same as their opinion of not saying sir is considered being impolite, even though historically those were terms used for certain levels of nobility and not just for regular people. I don’t take issue with sir and ma’am at all, even though it technically doesn’t belong but assumed intimacy I can. It feels awkward at best and actually very creepy and sexualizing without my consent at worst.

“Sir is used to address a man who has the rank of baronet or knight; the higher nobles are referred to as Lord. Lady is used when referring to women who hold certain titles: marchioness, countess, viscountess, or baroness. It can also be used of the wife of a lower-ranking noble, such as a baron, baronet, or knight.”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/a-field-guide-to-british-noble-titles-whats-a-duchess#:~:text=Sir%20is%20used%20to%20address,baron%2C%20baronet%2C%20or%20knight.

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DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister Sorry, so wordy. lol

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@DarkHeaven Unearned terms of endearment ... 🙄

Yes, we have discussed this. Guys calling me sweetheart, honey, sugar, or anything else like it are in for a bad day. My name is Sara. It's not that hard to learn. 🧐

DarkHeaven ·

@sarabee1995 I just call you my friend. But yeah, my friend’s name is Sara and people please be nice to me because she doesn’t like it when you’re not. Hope your day was absolutely wonderful. 🖤

[media=https://youtu.be/3CVyxGfP9L4]

Just push ‘em off. 🖤🤗

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@DarkHeaven They better be nice to you!!! 💪

DarkHeaven ·

@sarabee1995 my heroine. 🖤🤗

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@sarabee1995 Ah, so you feel how I do then. Only moreso, I think. Somehow that does not surprise me.

@DarkHeaven Unearned terms of endearment? Hmm. I'm not convinced that fully sums up what's going on here. I think this particular guy took it as being polite, and I took it as an unearned term of endearment. So yes, it bothered me. But also I recognize that social norms are different from place to place.

It's interesting to me that there's a full spectrum of views represented in the comments here. And, to my surprise, it seems like both men and women fall on both sides of the issue.

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister In Sara’s area of the US it would be very inappropriate, so where we come from molds this a lot. I’m in a more ruralish part of the Midwest US and some of this is a bit par for the course, especially with the older country people… so I always factor that in, in person. And while I’m not of the generation that thinks this is normally acceptable, in person if it’s said with no ill intent, I’ll normally in no way address even as I grimace inside. I don’t like it. Pretty much if we aren’t fucking or you’re not a very close friend, I don’t appreciate it. I do feel more irritated by a man saying it than a woman. And I’m not sure if that’s more me feeling sexualized by it because I’m gay… or simply because they are a man and I’m a woman, and we tend to get sexualized more period. Probably a combination of both. I know that’s a bit unfair but it’s my problem and I can’t exactly help how it makes me feel. I do also factor that in if and when I’d address this at all, and normally try to access intent before any addressing it at all.

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@DarkHeaven First off, I didn't realize you are Midwest. In my mind, I was putting you South somewhere. Maybe I just got it in my mind that you are South of me, since I'm in Wisconsin.

But yes, it's really the nonconsensual sexualization that some men feel entitled to. I'm thinking of Sara's Crab Shack guy from last year. On the other hand, women are not exempt from sexualizing someone without their consent. It's just a lot less common. In my case, this particular situation felt like something that was culturally appropriate for him but not for me. And lets be honest, there's a reason guys in that part of the country like it that the culture is that way, right? Makes it easier to get flirty with you but still have plausible deniability. At least that's how I feel about it. And that's why it irritates me.

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister exactly. I agree with everything that you said. I’m in the very rural southwestern part of the Midwest but I am still Midwest just like you. I find in rural areas there’s a bit of the good ‘ole boy stuff going on, but just not as ingrained into the culture as much as in the South. It’s also a generational divide. That stuff was very common in my grandparents age group, fairly common in my parents, and less and less common the younger you get. My 12 year old niece has heard the unearned terms of endearment but would be giving some serious side eye to a stranger trying to talk to her like that. So there’s a few things at play here but I just try to mostly deal with intent, and keep my own personal biases out of all of that.

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

[quote]...I just try to mostly deal with intent, and keep my own personal biases out of all of that.[/quote]

@DarkHeaven I think that's exactly the right attitude to have. Of course, getting to the intent is always the challenge, isn't it? Not always easy to know for sure.

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister can be almost impossible at times, but I just try and not automatically assume bad intent. Bad intent typically reveals itself without question over time. And if it’s just a one off interaction then perhaps intent didn’t even matter with something so tightly veiled. It’s always going to make me grimace inside but I try hard to not make my problem with it, also someone else’s.

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@DarkHeaven My work calls are almost entirely one-and-done interactions. That means that I don't usually get to see the build-over-time. But also, it means I don't have to worry much about it in the first place. Did I mention that I love my job? 😁

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister that’s fair. I don’t have many real life interactions in general but on the rare occasion I do, it’s rural people around me… with all of our idiosyncrasies.

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@DarkHeaven I am rural. I don't feel like we are too idiosyncratic. It's all good people around here. Of course I would prefer to live in the city.

That said, having just gone through a major move, I will NEVER move again, so help me god. I guess I will have to die here, because that was hella work. And I still have more I need to move over here from the old place!

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@DarkHeaven @ShadowSister It's definitely a regional and generational issue. And yes, I fully realize that it rubs me the wrong way because of where I'm from (northeast) and parts of my upbringing (martial arts & mutual respect).

But in those regions where it is so easily accepted, is it not hand-in-hand with the second class nature of a woman's place in those societies? When a man stands in front of you and calls you sweetie, is he seeing you as an equal?

zonavar68 · 51-55, M

@sarabee1995 No - it's demeaning to a woman as it makes out she is subservient.

DarkHeaven ·

@sarabee1995 @zonavar68
The Values of Chivalry:
Defense of the Weak – coming first to the defense of women, children, and the elderly. Love of Country – illustrated in loyalty to one's feudal lord and king. Courage in the Face of an Enemy – ferocity in battle without regard to one's own life or safety.

It was a knightly code about coming to the aid of those you considered weaker, like women. It’s much the same. No, not equals. They are coming to save you. I got my wife. She already saves me. I’m not against being saved. I just don’t need a man to do it. And some women actually do the saving part too themselves.

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@sarabee1995 This is why I'm so glad to have you as a friend. You articulate the things I don't want to say. I'm capitulating to everyone here because I don't want to have to defend my feelings. So I'm bending over backwards to say, "Yes, yes, it's just a cultural thing." But I don't have an issue with most other cultural things. It's this one in particular. Because, yes, something about it feels... just, like, grrr. And I know you hate that feeling WAY more than I do.

@DarkHeaven The problem with chivalry is that you can use it to justify whatever you want. How many lynchings were done to "protect" white women? Any narrative that positions you as the hero, and the "other" as the villain is bound to be problematic. The whole "white man's burden" was another formulation of the chivalry narrative, and it ended up being a thin mask for subjugating entire people groups.

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister maybe I phrased this wrong. I’m 💯 against chivalry. It’s a system that assumes someone is weaker. My wife saves me but not from some outdated knight code that assume women or maybe me specifically is weaker. My wife doesn’t think me weaker. She thinks I’m very strong in some ways. I save her, and she saves me. I know you were kinda gone when we first got married but this is our song.

[media=https://youtu.be/NzQ0dkcXLxI]

“Life is full of tiny coincidences. Pulling me to the exact moment we met. My madness only she could recognize and drown it in her own chaos. I saved her… and she saved me.”

ShadowSister · 46-50, F

@DarkHeaven Okay, now that I've caught my breath again. Wow, I needed a warning before I watched that video. Wow. Just, um... wow.

Yes, I agree with what you said here about chivalry.

DarkHeaven ·

@ShadowSister that’s us. I love her so much. She might have saved me just a little more than I did her.

OliRos · 18-21, F

@sarabee1995 It is, at best, an expression of unconscious bias. At worst, it is demeaning, a reminder of your place in the societal hierarchy.

DarkHeaven ·

@OliRos yeah. agreed.

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@OliRos Exactly.

SW-User

@DarkHeaven you are so goddamn good, [b][i][u]sweetheart[/u][/i][/b], I was going to reply but you said it all just right ❤️

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