EVs are far more efficient than conventional cars. Even if the electricity is generated from fossil fuels, EVs make better use of it
Energy efficient. EVs convert over 77% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 12%–30% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evtech.shtml
They are a step in a positive direction, using less energy overall. But some people get their egos involved and can't fathom changing their way of life even if it's for the better.
One can see the same thing with something like a Prius. People would rather pitch a fit than drive a car with a stellar fuel economy and so many of them want to cry about gas prices while driving around totally energy inefficient vehicles
Nope. Even when charged by a typical North American mix of oil and natural gas powered generators, electric cars have HALF the carbon footprint of gasoline powered cars, as measured over the lifetime of a car. Here's a link to an analysis plus some pretty pictures; there are many similar analyses out there.
Electric cars have a FAR lower lifetime CO2 footprint and a FAR lower lifetime energy footprint. Since energy correlates closely to dollars, it means electric cars have a far lower total cost of ownership.
These graphs are for Vancouver CA in 2018, so energy costs are similar to the US; however energy is represented in megajoules - there are 3.6 MJ in a KWH, and 1 MJ = .37 horsepower hours. It assumes 150,000Km of travel over the life of the car, about 93,000 miles.
Lifecycle CO2 costs (these include extracting & transporting oil)
@ElwoodBlues it seems like these people want to be engaged in a pissing contest over who can waste more energy. The facts are clear as day but these people cry and moan in rejecting reality
Battery cars are an intermediate stop in the evolution of the car. For some they will reperesent a clean cheap practical vehicle, for city and suburban driving.. But Hydrogen represents the long term solution. If the oil companies wished, they could be ready in five years. But right now they are making gangbuster profits, So where is their motivation.?😷
@trackboy I am sure I won't - I could not afford one, and having no-where at home to re-charge it, would be totally reliant on public charging-points far less certain and convenient to find and use than conventional filling-stations.
A hybrid maybe, but I doubt I could afford one of those either.
It probably depends on the individual boiler or stove's age and design, and many of the newer models at least may need only some minor modifications.
After all, this is similar to when we switched from "town gas" (mostly carbon monoxide, distilled from coal) to natural gas (methane); and usually the only alteration was new burner jets and gas/air mixture adjusting.
@ElwoodBlues I can't give you what you seek. You got to go and try to find it and good luck with that.
Ironically the podcast has been banned from FB. In the last weeks. The host said it may happen. Not popular views and such.
Things that make she sheeple go
tsk tsk tsk you are not vaccinated. OMGOD, you are vile crazy evil abomination. You shall be damned in hell. And go and buy that EV. Hurry up now! Or Devil's waiting on you...
😂😂😂
In the meantime the virologists and immunologists talk how more vaccines are deleterious to our bodies, and counterproductive. In my country sht's maybe going to hit the ceiling and then it would be very bad.
Ever wonder, where are ALL the videos or newspaper articles on people who have died or gotten sick from the vaccines? I wonder: They are taken off, so effing Communist (I can say it without being a hypocrite ) . In my circle people did get sick.
And it may be now on Rebel or Rumble, I am not sure (the podcast).
The world has 8,000 gigawatts of installed electricity generation capacity, according to the International Energy Agency. In theory, if the capacity ran 24-7 it could generate 69 million gigawatt hours of electricity annually.
The world consumed about 27 million gigawatt hours of electricity in 2019. That electricity warmed homes and ran businesses. What’s more, the world consumed the equivalent of roughly 28 million gigawatt hours of electrical energy to power its cars and trucks. That energy, of course, was stored in liquid fuel. Power plants didn’t have to generate it. Gasoline and diesel make most of the world’s vehicles go.
So 27 plus 28 is 56. The world needs 56 million gigawatt hours to keep the lights on as well as drive cars and trucks. There is 69 million gigawatt hours of capacity.No problem. But the generating capacity of wind and solar, of course, can’t be “on” 100% of the time. And even coal, nuclear, and hydro power plants have to take maintenance downtime. Still, there looks to be some spare generating capacity and the world’s 2 billion or so vehicles won’t convert to battery power all at once.
BTW, lithium batteries are great because they recycle so well.
Study: Recycled Lithium Batteries as Good as Newly Mined > Cathodes made with novel direct-recycling beat commercial materials 15 Oct 2021
And, lithium salts dissolved in hot geothermal wells has minimal environmental impact.
The new 'gold rush' for green lithium Geothermal brine could become a promising and sustainable source of an essential element for the renewable energy transition 24th November 2020
@ElwoodBlues Looking around, the world also wastes vast amounts of electricity!
For a simple example from my own use:
I do not "need" from an environmental perspective to drive to visit friends in the North of England (I can travel there by train), but at least there is a constructive social purpose to my 600-mile round-trip. Yet we do need all those commercial vehicles around me on the roads.
Yet neither the delivery-drivers nor I, nor anyone else, needs the meretricious electro-gimmickry of the motorway's service-stations - shops that do not need be there, amusement-machines of no use to anyone but their lessors, pointless piped music, masses of lighting, illuminated advertising, etc.
While it might behove us all to consider the gigantic international electricity demand that us chatting like this helps sustain!
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Regarding lithium, vast tonnages thereof....
Whilst mineral-rich brines are indeed a potentially valuable source of this and some other metals, they are not inexhaustible. For a start, there is only a finite volume of the stuff accessible in the ground. Further, it has taken Nature a very long time to hydrolise the minerals from the rocks, or to re-dissolve previously hydrolytes that have become precipitated in fissures (the mechanism forming the ore veins themselves); so there must surely be a point when the supply runs out.
In sites like Cornwall where this is being developed, the original hydrolysis and precipitation would have stopped many tens of millions of years ago, as the effects of the igneous activity responsible faded away. The brine is the result of ground-water very slowly re-dissolving those precipitates.
The water may still be there but the minerals concentration will drop as the precipitates disappear; especially if extraction rate exceeds the dissolution rate, as it may do by some orders of magnitude.
Somewhat similar principles apply to ground-source heat-pumps and simply extracting just water from a borehole: these can be over-pumped and it takes time for the source to become recharged.
Actually the younger ones are looking into ALL ways of changing. Including reusable bamboo utensils and straws. Thank goodness they aren’t giving up toilet PAPER….yet. But processed shampoo and other body products are being left on the shelf. They are opting to make their own or buying earth friendly products without harmful chemicals. The hair looks grundgy and there is more body odor so I’m not 100% a fan. @Braveheart
This is a bigger issue than you think, we either don't have a really reliable alternative to energy or the forces that be are not allowing such to be discovered/developed. If there was an easy way for people to use green energy I'm sure they'd be up to it.
@ArishMell Fair point, by alternative energy sources I mean sources that are sustainable, sources that can not be depleted like solar, wind, water based power generation. It would make me sound like a tin foil conspiracy nut but I really do think that there are influential and wealthy people who have an interest in keeping things the way they are because they are the most profitable for them.
We are not finding alternatives to energy. We cannot do that, but we are trying hard to find better ways of using the best sources of different forms of energy we can.
Also by this I obviously mean finding the means or source of power that has not been thought of until now, like nuclear energy, that wasn't an obvious source of energy for humanity for a long time until certain advancements in science were made.
@DrSunnyTheSkeptic Thnak you. Yes, I realise that but the whole debate has been made harder by the cliches and vagueness that have developed around it.
I also explained it for other readers who might not have appreciated the basic physics - immutable Laws of Nature!
Nuclear power is a spectacular example though of not only possible until historically very recently, but also having very deep difficulties of its own as well as huge advantages. The difficulties are often exaggerated though, and not helped by political knee-jerk reactions based on technical ignorance rather than learning from experience. That was typified by Germany following the Fukushima incident, of a type hardly likely on the Baltic coast.
What seems missing from the public debating (and sniping) is much serious analysis of what problems any other energy source may present; and also what problems will accrue from abandoning those we use now.
For example, there are strident voices among those who think petroleum itself is a fuel, calling for stopping its extraction and refining - before it runs out anyway*. What though, would be the effects of that loss, beyond the loss of fuels derived from it? Would it still be possible to build, install and operate wind-turbines, especially those off-shore, and their electricity distribution networks? If so, how, with what materials?
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*Several years ago BP, who as an oil-producer you might expect to be more optimistic, calculated the world's known oil reserves will be exhausted well within this century, at present rates of use. There are probably other oil-fields yet untapped, but becoming harder and ever more expensive to find and develop. BP also calculated coal similarly becoming depleted, perhaps 50 years further ahead. Even Saudi Arabia is already considering its industrial and economic options for when its own oil-fields run dry.
@ArishMell I guess that's why the emphasis is on finding renewable sources of energy and such that don't pollute the environment beyond belief, that's just planning ahead, naturally one should consider that humanity won't suddenly cease to exist after the century
Yup. Either be completely green or shut your hypocritical cake hole. Operating a car that is recharged using fossil fuels only doubles pollution and increases the cost of electricity for everyone.
Such a law can only work if the nation's entire electricity supply is by wind or solar power only.
I wonder what they'll do with the hydro-electric power-stations that will be as unwanted and abandoned as nuclear ones, your question implies...?
Or how they will refine petroleum and coal to produce the raw materials for what is needed to make, install and maintain umpteen thousand wind generators, but not the fuels, from them?
At least coal may be, but petroleum is not, a "fossil fuel".
Well, they need find a filling-station for their petrol, so so far, no difference...
But.....
They'd be like me, having to use a public charging-point assuming one exists in working order, with a payment system I can use, in my locality at the time, when I need it, and not hogged by a 12-car queue at half-past-rhubarb a.m.
That will have a big impact on charging cars in 🇬🇧 as we don’t get enough sun and with wind it’s too much or not enough therefore the wind turbines have to be switched off. I saw a report that electric cars aren’t carbon neutral especially when being they are far worse that a petrol and diesel cars
@Northshorenappy there just isn’t enough around, just isn’t practical. It’s all crazy! They just want to take everything from us, 🏡 🚗 we’ll own nothing and they’ll be happy. 🙄🤡
Wind and solar power could indeed power peoples electric cars. We just have to turn off all the TV's in peoples houses. Air-conditioners, heaters, fridges, kettles, nah not kettles, we need coffee people.
@Zonuss Well, everywhere it is generated and distributed... I agree it's not practicable though to say A will use only that source, B will use only this, etc. when the methods of generation and transmission are all inter-linked.
