* If a woman decides to have the child, should the man involved have the ability to opt out of the legal obligations of fatherhood?

@KaiserSolze what if the women wants to get rid of the child but the man doesn’t agree?...

@Curiousguy833 the woman has to carry the child. This is alot of stress on the body. Women have been aborting babies long before doctors and by dangerous means so in that scenario it's the woman's choice. It's practically impossible to take this choice from a woman because when illegal women will do it illegally if they want to - juniper berries, coat hangers and throwing themselves down stairs. So woman's body, woman's choice. If we got to a stage where the man could carry the baby and have the embryo transferred to themselves then fine, the man gets a say and the woman has to financially support that child too.

@Curiousguy833 the man isn't carrying a child to term inside their own bodies.

@ViciDraco well until they can then they don't get a say about abortion or not. It's impossible to enforce besides the moral implications.

@KaiserSolze I agree with that. The woman is privileged to that decision because she carries almost all of the risk.

@KaiserSolze firstly I am not sure I commented here but it looks like my comment was might have been deleted for some reason lol 🤷🏽‍♂️

Back to the comment. You say that “ if you are willing to carry the sperm around then you have to deal with the responsibilities” (not word for word but that is what you are saying.) I agree with that, and if you are taken advantage of then they should be jailed.

But sometimes accidents happen. So if a person is carrying my/our child but they are not ready for kids etc and I am against that... the guy has to deal with it, because it’s she choice? But if she has a child and the guy is not ready and says we should not have it. He is forced into a commitment?

@Curiousguy833 yes. It's a spin around from when women were either shunned and put in mental hospitals for wanting to keep bastard children or forced to marry men they didn't want to or risk their lives having abortions. It's the spin around of that. Women lived with it for millenia. Men have had about 40 years of this way around in the West and you're up in arms lol.

So ViciDraco's compromise sounds fair. Or live with the spin around for a couple of millenia. It's karma baby. But we're in modern times so you pick how you pay the piper - snip and relatively minor pain or no say and $£€

@KaiserSolze "If the sperm was taken against their will then definitely and the woman should be jailed. " what the hell does that mean?

@Fernie women have stole mens sperm. A woman kidnapped and drugged and tied a man up for two weeks to impregnate herself. It was a one off as far as I know but it can happen. She was jailed. And her friend who helped her.

@KaiserSolze How many other examples do you have...you speak as if this is common...that is nuts!

@Fernie a woman was luring men to her apartment, trapping them for days and forcing them to have sex. One escaped naked and went to the police and a couple of others came forward after they read about her latest victim.

There's a couple of others but I can't remember the details.

It's not common but it could get common if its ignored or brushed under the carpet.

@KaiserSolze "a woman". That's unusual enough to have news articles reporting it. Who was this ? I can name you female serial killers because there aren't that many. Should be the same with female serial rapists.

@KaiserSolze your argument is weak...I'd like some names and stories. It would be front page news

@Fernie it was. I'm not Googling up names. Google it.