to everyone who strongly thinks it exists: The "wage gap" is simply earnings of men and women working full time, it does not count for different job positions, hours worked, or different jobs... it has nothing to do with the same job, it has nothing to do with discrimination.

@carpe I think we agree more than disagree as to final outcome. My point was that many factors can not be quantified as such. May not have said it well enough. And I think the pay equity discussion occurs more in large corporate arenas than it does in smaller entities.

Your example makes a point. But more about employee retention than pay. An employees with a bad attitude doesnt now ed to worry about a raise. They need to be worried about another job.

And in the interest of full disclosre I have been a civil servant for almost 20 years. Basicaly if you turn the widget properly you get retained. And if one person in the job title gets a raise they all do. Merit raises for non income producing jobs that cant be quantified are really more a popularity contest with your boss as the judge.

Congrats on having your own business by the way.

Does Prozac work for oppression? 😩

@bob @zmedlef http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#7b9321894766 fair enough, experience and all, but what do you make of this?

@buck No offense, but that's bull. You can't test work ethic. And work ethic is more powerful than any of the others. And there isn't a test for good attitude. But without it, the entire work place can unravel.

I was deciding between two employees on which one to keep when the economy took a down turn. I fired a guy with a BA in a particular discipline and kept the guy with no degree. They both made the same amount. The guy I kept had a far superior work ethic and was clearly more interested in looking out for my best interests due to his attitude. The other guy, while being very skilled, was dragging down the others with a bad attitude.

Now, you tell me what's an equitable pay plan between these two men. I let the BA guy go, and gave the other guy a raise.

I don't know any person who makes less than a male or female counterpart based on noting but gender. These days education, skill, qualifications, attitude, cooperation, team player, commitment, work ethic, and long term plans come into play FAR more than one's gender. Those who whine about what the next person makes are likely missing several of the above attributes. Who wants to hire someone with a bad attitude? I might if the market is tight, but they aren't going to make more than someone with a great attitude just because he or she is male or female. Not a chance in hell.

No. Men and women can do different jobs and they have different pay that's all

@AccountVacated thanks for looking that up and sharing. The author is speaking of things they presented to a group of women-only students at Harvard and there's the 1st thing to consider... Harvard THIS year boasts only about 1-2% fewer women than men. BUT in previous years, like 5 years ago it was more like 40% female and the author is speaking to a senior audience, so in their admission year women were almost 10% less likely to go to Harvard, while Harvard admissions only slightly affects job GETTING in average professions it greatly affects getting a position in the top paying firms. And even in average positions it affects advancement significantly -- I suspect that this same author is not speaking to a crowd of senior-class females at my alma mater, ODU, which typically has a slightly higher male freshman admission rate, but is higher on female attendance overall.
so @ragdoll even with this simple overview of that PART of the consideration in the statistical overlay hopefully you can see it's a very complex issue in the United States.

even queen of feminism huffpost doesn't think the pay gap is real
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html

In the US, liberal issues like this are just assumed to be real. If you question them or heaven forbid disagree, you're relentlessly bashed.

No. Apart from maybe a few isolated cases, the gender pay gap is a myth.

Seee this happened to me before..I keep forgetting America is different than here and end up arguing with people about completely different things 😂😂 I have no idea how it works in America. But as far as the UK goes, it's not even a myth..it's a straight up LIE!!

I can't see carpe's comments either D: Must've deleted them

@carpe, that is one of the most useful measures in determining who gets the pay raises, too, attitude, commitment to the company, but also noticeability, is the one not getting raises not storming in demanding them, where someone else is in the bosses face all week...?

@ragdoll, we keep more detailed stats than that in the US and typically women in our workplaces make about $75 -- to the $100 of an equally qualified male in the same position. It may no longer exist in your world as European countries have taken strides to even out the pay differences -- deliberately.

queen, Rocketman86 needs to get in to this debate hahaha

@carpe that's the attitude that makes people successful. And makes companies richer.."let's hire a less competent man and pay him more"..is not

@blindbob when I was 18 I applied for a job as a waitress, I had no experience and I interviewed with a guy that a years experience..I got the job. That is an experience I had..can we now say 18 year old girls are more likely to get jobs because it happened to me?

Question: Do you think some people are more concerned about what the person makes sitting next to them than they are about performing their job well? Maybe there's a clue hiding in there somewhere...?

AND WOMEN WIN AGAIN 😁🏆🎉🎈

@zmed Thanks. Someone comes in demanding things from me and they don't last long. You do a good job and you get noticed. You do a great job, make me profit by it, you get a raise. And it doesn't matter what flavor you are.

Well... no

Buck... In my state, we're the servants of the civil workers. They get raises based on exactly what you said. I dig deeper and deeper even though my income levels are declining. And you're correct regarding retention versus new hires.

Jobs aren't what they used to be. They are scarce today. Employers in my world don't give a damned about gender. They care about who is going to make them enough $$ to stay alive. And trust me, having my own business isn't what it used to be either. I feel like I have a target on my back.

I promised queen I'd behave, so that's it for me for awhile.

This mighta been true a few decades ago. I mean, yeah, the traditional school of thought for a long time was that a man was more likely to work a job and a woman was more likely to do things like look after children or cook food and stuff like that. Which is fine and all if that's how you're comfortable living but seeing as how that sort of "norm" has dissipated in recent times and it's now totally regular for women to work jobs, it's not really as much of a concern anymore.

yeah, it's real. even women bosses perpetuate it. when i tried to negotiate for a higher salary on a job, the boss told me not to "insult" myself. then after i started the job, i found out another guy who had been hired at the same time as me, who didn't have more experience or accolades, was getting paid more. meanwhile a woman hired at the same time as me, with more experience and more accomplishments than both of us, was getting the same salary as me. he was making more than both of us.

@carpe I am not arguing...but I do want to point out that of the 9 items that were in that one sentence (the list starts with education..etc) only one of them was objective and verifiable.. (education). I will give you the skill qualifier IF you are talking about a job that you can actually test someone on their skills. Coming up with a fair and equitable pay plan is one of the hardest things I can think of.

tl;dr If you strictly mean men getting higher paychecks than women for the same job, no, it's not really a thing. If you mean opportunities to get as much money as men, then yes, there is a pay gap. Men tend to make more money than women, because they are men.

Well, if you believe the U.S. government, the gender pay gap does exist. You can find info on it at www.whitehouse.gov Essentially, they say the pay gap grows over the course of the career. At entry level positions, men and women are paid the same, in most cases, but women are less likely to reach higher positions. Women also are less likely to receive health insurance, paid leave, and retirement saving plans compared to men.

I haven't experienced it and I don't think it's very common but it does exist, research proves this; but there are other factors that weigh into salary. That being said, my female manager at my last job was paid 2 dollars less than the male manager and she took on more responsibilities. She never complained because she needed the job and didn't want to get on the owner's "bad side".

The statistical information available very strongly says, yes.

@A7 well you are being opressed into being opressed right here. So unfortunately I must conclude you are opressed

In my state we havent seen a real increase in pay in 10 yearsm they pride themselves on having a lower ratio of state workers to population than the state of mississipi. to add insult to injury the gov said...we are providing the full cost of the retirement...we will charge the worker bees 3 per cent. A couple of years later they give a small raise that almost covers my "contribution". So yeah we all take a hit from the taskmasters. ;)

@ A7 LOL... Stepping down off my pedestal. Yes. I think I've covered it. ☺

So it doesn't exist then?

@A7xqueen Men tend to earn more money because they are more likely to reach more highly paid positions. For example, most CEOs are men. Very seldom does a woman reach that high in a company. Is that because women are not capable of performing those jobs? Probably not. If a woman did become a CEO, she probably would get paid the same as a man, the problem is just that the odds are stacked against her getting the job in the first place.

It's not real. This has been proven 😊

Haha it might work gotta try @a7 😁

Oh they must of blocked us then. Must of saw some truth and got startled 😞

@A7, if you don't believe my experience, you can find statistical proof on the disparity in pay on the dept of labor website. also take a look at the Ledbetter Law. start with wikipedia if that's your speed.

and by the way, getting a waiting job over some guy at Hooters doesn't count in this discussion. 😂

@carpe haha you're a good sport 😊👍

@bob no you don't

Carediem

Not where I'm from, no.

@myzery so true 😄

It totally is in the US

@bob, show it to 'em ✊

queen hahaha....I bet hes gonna be like ffs this coming from ragdoll again?

@A7x Well the reason I make more money than my male coworkers is the same reason I make more money than my female coworkers. It's because I'm so goddamn good at what I do that I can ask for more of that $$$ and my employers knows they should give it to me.