Question for Americans

@sarabee1995 I think you're forgetting about the interest.

@LordShadowfire Umm, no, I didn't.

Every debt is always described/defined by the principle owed. Of course there is interest on top if that of the principle is not payed, but that interest is not owed until and unless the time elapses.

@SomeMichGuy 🙄

@sarabee1995 Sorry, just wanted to emphasize

principal (in the loan & other senses)

v.

principle (which is a bit different)

@sarabee1995 Oh, I see, so it's okay to charge college students predatory amounts of interest, because they should be wealthy enough to pay off the principal before it kicks in. Got it.

@LordShadowfire Don't think I see that in any of my words.

@SomeMichGuy got it

@sarabee1995 Well, you dismissed the problem of how high the interest rates are, so I simply assume that you're cool with predatory interest rates. If you're not, feel free to let me know.

@LordShadowfire Nope. I didn't dismiss the problem of interest at all. I simply commented on the OP's statement that $100k in student debt is common.

I know it happens, but I don't believe it is common. At least it is not as far as I have observed. That was the extent of my comment.

@sarabee1995

You say that $100k is "higher than average"? And you say you had $38k in student debt from a "very expensive private undergrad university"? And you gradated only 7 years ago, you say? 🤔

The average annual cost of a "very expensive private undergrad university" in the USA in today's dollars, is $68,000 per year, x the number of years you spend there.

Seven years ago, that would only be 21% less than it is today assuming an annual tuition inflation rate of 3%, even through 3 years of Covid which ran essentially zero percent annually for those 3 years of the pandemic.

The most expensive private undergrad universities in the USA are found on the northern eastern seaboard of the U.S. between Massachusetts and New York.

What I'd like to know is, who paid the first $100k of your "very expensive private undergrad university" student debt for you, leaving you with only $38k to payoff on your own?

Surely you're not trying to tell us that your total university tab rang-in at $38k, are you?

@SandWitch Wow. Okay, let's get into it...

Yes, I graduated in 2017 and I'm in that northeastern region where education costs are a bit crazy. I attended university in Providence, Rhode Island, at what many people consider America's most liberal campus.

No, my student debt was not the total cost of my education (I never said it was). Almost everyone I know had a mix of funding sources for their university expenses.

I'm my case, that included:
- student loans
- income from work prior to university
- income from work while at university
- grants
- help from parents.

In total, my contribution (first three categories above) was about 60% of my education costs. Grants ended up being about 10%-ish. And my parents provided the rest. We were a middle class family so there were no need-based grants which would be available for others.

I know some people that had crazy high debt totals from their university days but very few people at the $100k level. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not the "average" and certainly not common.

@sarabee1995 Yes, your experience is similar to many--the full bill might be high, but a combination of sources makes it happen.

@sarabee1995
I knew you'd come out swinging on this one when someone finally called you out on your $38k student debt, particularly after stating to us that you "went to a very expensive private undergrad university and graduated with $38,000 in debt"!

Like I asked you before, who was paying for your education? Obviously you came clean with your financial source, which happens to be good old mom and dad. So then, it was actually your PARENTS who incurred about $100k in student debt from YOUR education, not you, which then left you with a mere $38k to pay off on your own when all was said and done. Let's you be clear on that one because I certainly am.

How much did your university education really cost sarabee, maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of $120 to $140k when all associated expenses were accounted for?

@Lordshadowfire called you out big time when you tried to smoke the cost of interest past him in your total dismissal of the point he was making, as if you saw him as a misinformed, uneducated idiot because of your perception of interest-cost being a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.

Yet, despite his best repeated efforts to actually 'educate' you on the true cost of your education, you blew him off because of your insatiable need to be perceived as 'right', despite you not having any idea what he was actually talking about.

The truth is sarabee, your $38k in student debt has totally misrepresented your argument to the OP's question that $100k in student debt is "Definitely higher than average". You have me convinced that you have absolutely no clue what the average university student debt amounts to in the USA nor have you ever in the real world.

But then again, to take 5 years to pay off the remaining $38k of your own student debt also means that despite you living so cheaply as you've stated (like maybe because you live in mom and dad's basement), that you are still not earning the big bucks you were promised that a university education would provide to those so privileged to hold a Degree from a "very expensive, private undergrad university", considering you'd be paying income tax on it and living off the net income, not the gross income, even if you DID live in Dad's house and not in a state of poverty in some basement apartment.

@SandWitch Wow.

Nope. Didn't live in Mom & Dad's house at all. I did spend part of that time living on a DDG in the Pacific. That's Navy shorthand for a guided missile destroyer. I also spent part of that time living on a CVN in the Persian Gulf and the northern Arabian Sea. Oh, and yeah, CVN is Navy shorthand for a nuclear powered aircraft carrier.

And, also no, my parents didn't take out $100k in education debt either. They began saving for college when we were infants (like most middle class American families).

I have no idea why either of you are trying to pick apart my simple statement that $100k in student debt is higher than average. Yes, I know some people accumulate that much, but it is not typical, not average, and not common.

Every single person I knew back in college used multiple sources of funds for college. Nobody was borrowing 100% of their education costs. That would be insane and stupid.

Lastly, I didn't "come clean" with anything here. I simply added some detail because you were so clearly lacking in comprehension. I came out of college with $38k in debt because I worked my ass off all through high school and college.

You've finally motivated me to check and see if I was right that $100k was not average or typical. A simple Google search works:
So I guess my $38k in debt was actually above average. 🙄

@sarabee1995
What I've learned for sure about you sarabee is your insatiable need to be perceived as 'right' no matter what venue you write about on this website.

What I have also come to observe about you is that you will always 'spin' your tale in any way and into any shape to make any rebuttal you offer appear as if coming from a seemingly reliable source to ensure your 'tale' remains as a perfect fit for your misguided rhetoric that follows, rather than change your rhetoric and admit that you were actually proven wrong when someone calls you out which by the way, happens to you more than just occasionally in here.

But no matter how categorically wrong someone brings to your attention that you are, you will not back down. You don't have that in you to back down, even when you know you've been proven wrong. This is because you are a 'right fighter' sarabee, meaning it is imperative that you create the perception that you are 'right', no matter what.

Sadly, it no longer matters in your mind what the correct answer is or who it is that you attempt to make look like a fool along the way like you did to @Lordshadowfire, as long as you were the one providing what you think is the correct answer. That's all that matters to you in your ongoing desperate attempt to keep your ego's very highly placed esteem of itself fully intact at all times.

Being a 'right fighter' can be very dangerous to yourself and to those around you sarabee, because being a 'right fighter' is considered a non-treatable mental illness by the American Medical Association.

Ironically, being professionally diagnosed as a 'right fighter' is a state of mind that is actually triggered from fear, or when you feel threatened in any way which then triggers your resulting actions from a state of very low self-esteem and low self-worth.

Your low self-esteem and low self-worth then become overcompensated for by your ego's attempt to create the opposite mosaic of your true state of mind as presented to those around you whenever that fear or inner threat presents itself in any form. That's why being a 'right fighter' can be very dangerous to yourself and to those around you.

Having said that, you are 'right' sarabee. To appease your ego's need to be 'right' at all cost, even after it scoured the internet for a Google search that conveniently matches what you've previously stated albeit in error, I think you are 'right' again sarabee.

Damn, you're good. Here's a hero cookie for your ego... 🍪

@SandWitch That's why I gave up on talking to her. Years of experience arguing with my dad has taught me to recognize when someone is just going to twist everything.

@SandWitch Please give me one example of me spinning a story here. All I ask is one example.

I said the $100k figure was well above average and that my personal figure was $38k.

Turns out that was true.

@LordShadowfire said I was wrong because I didn't discuss interest. OP wasn't talking about interest. She was talking about the debt owed.

You said I was wrong because I wasn't revealing total cost of education. OP wasn't asking about total cost of education. She was asking about total debt owed.

You two have repeatedly attacked me and I've spun nothing. I've simply responded to your questions respectfully and honestly despite your hostility. Be well.

@LordShadowfire You gave up talking to me??? 🤣🤣🤣

Anyway ... Please give me one example here where I've twisted anything.

@sarabee1995 Agreed.

You even offered personal info not required (and obviously, not appreciated!).

Thanks for talking about your situation, how you paid for college, your exit debt. 😊

@sarabee1995 Interest might not have been mentioned by the OP, but that's where they get you. And it seems like you are intentionally being dense about the OP's intent when you say they weren't talking about the total cost of education. Because let's be honest, if you need financial aid, and they offer you a package that will get you the best degree possible, you're going to fall for it and think that you can pay it off more quickly. That's where they get you.

@sarabee1995 Did you see me respond to your last comment in my direction? No. Why do you suppose that was? Did you honestly think it was because you made a good point?

@LordShadowfire Fine. Great. No disagreement. But this is a new topic. Why did you attack me for commenting on the OP's post?

And just for clarification... In your reply above, who is "they"?

Is it the colleges and universities who are trying to drive attendance and revenue?

Is it the banks who are trying to maximize loans issued?

If I'm trying to sell you something, am I responsible for you making poor financial choices in making that purchase? I'm not saying yes or no to this question, but that is the key question. The responsibility for the situation is shared.

@sarabee1995 I didn't. I responded.
Whoever it is setting the interest rates on these loans.
It depends. How exactly are you advertising it? Don't forget, the way the job market is, you need an advanced degree in astrophysics before they'll consider you as a gas jockey. (Slight exaggeration for comedic effect.)
Yeah, by the boomers creating an impossible job market, the loan departments taking advantage of poor students, and human beings who want to eat.

@LordShadowfire When is the last time I commented on or reacted to one of your posts after doing so daily for quite some time??? A month ago maybe? Ever wonder why? Or maybe that's why you're attacking me this week?