Do you know that children's brains stop growing in the womb or early childhood when there is chronic stress or their Mom or Dad fight.

@Pherick Graduate school, and required reading and research working with Children's protective Services many years ago.

@Carazaa Yea .... thats not a source. Thats anecdotal opionons.

In other words, it just means that you "feel" this is true, that doesn't actually make it true.

@Pherick Nope it is research, look it up!

@Carazaa Not how this works. You presented something as a fact, YOU need to present the research.

In Graduate school did you just walk into a class for a presentation, present a theory and when your teacher asked for your sources, then tell him to "Look it up!"?

No of course you didn't that ridiculous, same applies here.

Want to try again?

@Pherick
I agree with @Carazaa. I've read those same studies myself when I attended university. Even if she were to give you a source, you wouldn't go off and extract that source to validate her findings anyway, so why don't you stop trolling her post?

@swirlie So ... no evidence from you either just more "feelings". Gotcha.

Want to try again?

@Pherick
What would you do with the information if it was provided to you, Pherick?

@Pherick
Just as I thought... you'd do nothing but at least your ego would be appeased!

@Pherick
Here are some articles about brain development and effects on brain size years later.

B.R.H. Van den Bergh, M.I. van den Heuvel, M. Lahti, M. Braeken, S.R. de Rooij, S. Entringer, et al.
Prenatal developmental origins of behavior and mental health: The influence of maternal stress in pregnancy
Neurosci Biobehav Rev, 117 (2020), pp. 26-64

C.A. Woody, A.J. Ferrari, D.J. Siskind, H.A. Whiteford, M.G. Harris
A systematic review and meta-regression of the prevalence and incidence of perinatal depression
J Affect Disord, 219 (2017), pp. 86-92

3
C.L. Dennis, K. Falah-Hassani, R. Shiri
Prevalence of antenatal and postnatal anxiety: Systematic review and meta-analysis
Br J Psychiatry, 210 (2017), pp. 315-323

4
C. Buss, S. Entringer, J.M. Swanson, P.D. Wadhwa
The role of stress in brain development: The gestational environment’s long-term effects on the brain
Cerebrum, 2012 (2012), p. 4

A.M. Graham, O. Doyle, E.L. Tilden, E.L. Sullivan, H.C. Gustafsson, M. Marr, et al.
Effects of maternal psychological stress during pregnancy on offspring brain development: Considering the role of inflammation and potential for preventive intervention
Biol Psychiatry Cogn Neurosci Neuroimaging, 7 (2022), pp. 461-470

C. Buss, E.P. Davis, L.T. Muftuler, K. Head, C.A. Sandman
High pregnancy anxiety during mid-gestation is associated with decreased gray matter density in 6-9-year-old children
Psychoneuroendocrinology, 35 (2010), pp. 141-153

7
H. El Marroun, R. Zou, R.L. Muetzel, V.W. Jaddoe, F.C. Verhulst, T. White, H. Tiemeier
Prenatal exposure to maternal and paternal depressive symptoms and white matter microstructure in children
Depress Anxiety, 35 (2018), pp. 321-329

A. Lautarescu, M.C. Craig, V. Glover
Prenatal stress: Effects on fetal and child brain development
Int Rev Neurobiol, 150 (2020), pp. 17-40

A.J. Dufford, M. Spann, D. Scheinost
How prenatal exposures shape the infant brain: Insights from infant neuroimaging studies
Neurosci Biobehav Rev, 131 (2021), pp. 47-58

10
C. Buss, E.P. Davis, B. Shahbaba, J.C. Pruessner, K. Head, C.A. Sandman
Maternal cortisol over the course of pregnancy and subsequent child amygdala and hippocampus volumes and affective problems
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 109 (2012), pp. E1312-E1319
View in ScopusGoogle Scholar
11
A. Qiu, T.T. Anh, Y. Li, H. Chen, A. Rifkin-Graboi, B.F.P. Broekman, et al.
Prenatal maternal depression alters amygdala functional connectivity in 6-month-old infants
Transl Psychiatry, 5 (2015), p. e508
View PDF
This article is free to access.
CrossRefView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
12
A. Rifkin-Graboi, J. Bai, H. Chen, W.B. Hameed, L.W. Sim, M.T. Tint, et al.
Prenatal maternal depression associates with microstructure of right amygdala in neonates at birth
Biol Psychiatry, 74 (2013), pp. 837-844
View PDFView articleView
13
D.C. Dean 3rd, E.M. Planalp, W. Wooten, S.R. Kecskemeti, N. Adluru, C.K. Schmidt, et al.
Association of prenatal maternal depression and anxiety symptoms with infant white matter microstructure
JAMA Pediatr, 172 (2018), pp. 973-981
View PDF
This article is free to access.

14
J.H. Gilmore, R.C. Knickmeyer, W. Gao
Imaging structural and functional brain development in early childhood
Nat Rev Neurosci, 19 (2018), pp. 123-137

15
T.L. Roth, J.D. Sweatt
Annual Research Review: Epigenetic mechanisms and environmental shaping of the brain during sensitive periods of development
J Child Psychol Psychiatry, 52 (2011), pp. 398-408
View article CrossRefView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
16
C. Murgatroyd, A.V. Patchev, Y. Wu, V. Micale, Y. Bockmühl, D. Fischer, et al.
Dynamic DNA methylation programs persistent adverse effects of early-life stress [published correction appears in Nat Neurosci 2010;13:649
Nat Neurosci, 12 (2009), pp. 1559-1566

17
N. Tottenham, T.A. Hare, B.T. Quinn, T.W. McCarry, M. Nurse, T. Gilhooly, et al.
Prolonged institutional rearing is associated with atypically large amygdala volume and difficulties in emotion regulation
Dev Sci, 13 (2010), pp. 46-61
View PDF
This article is free to access.
CrossRefView
18
R.E. Vanderwert, C.H. Zeanah, N.A. Fox, C.A. Nelson 3rd
Normalization of EEG activity among previously institutionalized children placed into foster care: A 12-year follow-up of the Bucharest Early Intervention Project
Dev Cogn Neurosci, 17 (2016), pp. 68-75
View PDFView articleView in
J. Bick, R. Lipschutz, A. Tabachnick, B. Biekman, D. Katz, R. Simons, M. Dozier
Timing of adoption is associated with electrophysiological brain activity and externalizing problems among children adopted internationally
Dev Psychobiol, 64 (2022), Article e22249

20
K.M. Hillerer, V.R. Jacobs, T. Fischer, L. Aigner
The maternal brain: An organ with peripartal plasticity
Neural Plast, 2014 (2014), Article 574159

21. P. Kim
How stress can influence brain adaptations to motherhood
Front Neuroendocrinol, 60 (2021), Article 100875
View PDFView articleView
S.P. Zoubovsky, M.T. Williams, S. Hoseus, S. Tumukuntala, A. Riesenberg, J. Schulkin, et al.
Neurobehavioral abnormalities following prenatal psychosocial stress are differentially modulated by maternal environment
Transl Psychiatry, 12 (2022), p. 22
View PDF
This article is free to access.

23
Y. Bogoch, Y.N. Biala, M. Linial, M. Weinstock
Anxiety induced by prenatal stress is associated with suppression of hippocampal genes involved in synaptic function
J Neurochem, 101 (2007), pp. 1018-1030
r
24
A.S. Masten, C.M. Lucke, K.M. Nelson, I.C. Stallworthy
Resilience in development and psychopathology: Multisystem perspectives
Annu Rev Clin Psychol, 17 (2021), pp. 521-549

25. M. Ungar
Designing resilience research: Using multiple methods to investigate risk exposure, promotive and protective processes, and contextually relevant outcomes for children and youth
Child Abuse Negl, 96 (2019), Article 104098
View PDFView articleView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
26
K. Walsh, C.A. McCormack, R. Webster, A. Pinto, S. Lee, T. Feng, et al.
Maternal prenatal stress phenotypes associate with fetal neurodevelopment and birth outcomes
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 116 (2019), pp. 23996-24005
View article CrossRefView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
27
M. Rutter, T.E. Moffitt, A. Caspi
Gene-environment interplay and psychopathology: Multiple varieties but real effects
J Child Psychol Psychiatry, 47 (2006), pp. 226-261
View article CrossRefView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
28
N. Badihian, S.S. Daniali, R. Kelishadi
Transcriptional and epigenetic changes of brain derived neurotrophic factor following prenatal stress: A systematic review of animal studies
Neurosci Biobehav Rev, 117 (2020), pp. 211-231
View PDFView articleView in ScopusGoogle Scholar
29
B.S. McEwen, E.A. Gould, R.R. Sakai
The vulnerability of the hippocampus to protective and destructive effects of glucocorticoids in relation to stress
Br J Psychiatry Suppl, 160 (1992), pp. 18-23
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M. Aronsson, K. Fuxe, Y. Dong, L.F. Agnati, S. Okret, J.A. Gustafsson
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Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, 85 (1988), pp. 9331-9335
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31
A. Charil, D.P. Laplante, C. Vaillancourt, S. King
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32
J.K. McCreary, G.A.S. Metz
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This article is free to access.
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N.K. Moog, S. Nolvi, T.S. Kleih, M. Styner, J.H. Gilmore, J.M. Rasmussen, et al.
Prospective association of maternal psychosocial stress in pregnancy with newborn hippocampal volume and implications for infant social-emotional development
Neurobiol Stress, 15 (2021), Article 100368
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34
A. Qiu, A. Rifkin-Graboi, H. Chen, Y.S. Chong, K. Kwek, P.D. Gluckman, et al.
Maternal anxiety and infants’ hippocampal development: Timing matters
Transl Psychiatry, 3 (2013), Article e306
View PDF
This article is free to access.
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35
A. Lautarescu, D. Pecheva, C. Nosarti, J. Nihouarn, H. Zhang, S. Victor, et al.
Maternal prenatal stress is associated with altered uncinate fasciculus microstructure in premature neonates
Biol Psychiatry, 87 (2020), pp. 559-569
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36
A. Rifkin-Graboi, M.J. Meaney, H. Chen, J. Bai, W.B. Hameed, M.T. Tint, et al.
Antenatal maternal anxiety predicts variations in neural structures implicated in anxiety disorders in newborns
J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry, 54 (2015), pp. 313-321.e2
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37
D. Scheinost, M.N. Spann, L. McDonough, B.S. Peterson, C. Monk
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38
R.G. Brady, C.E. Rogers, T. Prochaska, S. Kaplan, R.E. Lean, T.A. Smyser, et al.
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39
K.L. Humphreys, M.C. Camacho, M.C. Roth, E.C. Estes
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Dev Cogn Neurosci, 46 (2020), Article 100877
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40
J.P. Herman, M.M. Ostrander, N.K. Mueller, H. Figueiredo
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B.L. Callaghan, N. Tottenham
The neuro-environmental loop of plasticity: A cross-species analysis of parental effects on emotion circuitry development following typical and adverse caregiving
Neuropsychopharmacology, 41 (2016), pp. 163-176
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J.E. LeDoux
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E. Hoff
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S.B. Selman, J. Dilworth-Bart, H.Ş. Selman, J.G. Cook, L.G. Duncan
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H. Sharp, J. Hill, J. Hellier, A. Pickles
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A. Pickles, H. Sharp, J. Hellier, J. Hill
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@Pherick Damn. You done got told.

@swirlie How do you know @Pherick was trolling? Seems like he was just asking for evidence, and wasn't accepting anecdotal fallacies.

@LordShadowfire
Because Pherick behaves like that frequently on this site which has become his modus operandi for being here in a trolling kind of fashion. What I've noticed is that he doesn't actually care what you're talking about because he never follows up on anything anyway, but only that you didn't provide some kind of online reference for everything that is stated in a post, as if he were presenting himself as the official SW 'fact cop'!

@swirlie Yeah, well, maybe he's like me, and just sick of people who don't provide links to peer-reviewed articles.

Many Christians and Republicans have a tendency to do that, and then insist that it's my responsibility to disprove what they have said, even though they haven't proven it. Ask @GodSpeed63 to prove the existence of God if you want an example of that sort of thing.

Now, obviously, I'm excepting @Carazaa from that rule, because boy oh boy, did she provide evidence. Just a ton of articles. And I do notice that @Pherick hasn't responded to that last comment. Which means he's either reading her articles, or he's off licking his wounds somewhere.

@swirlie AWWW. You follow me??? Thats so sweet!!!

Its a shame that with all that whining, wailing and gnashing of teeth you did there, you didn't find time to post a source or two.

Holding people's feet to the fire when it comes to fact and sources should be the job of ANYONE who wants to have real discussions and real debates.

Otherwise its just people whining into the void. Which is fine, but don't act like its more than that.

@LordShadowfire Not told, shown. and while impressive, its obviously a bit overboard. However I will endeavor to look through some of them.

@Pherick [quote]Holding people's feet to the fire when it comes to fact and sources should be the job of ANYONE who wants to have real discussions and real debates.[/quote]
Yeah, well, some people get real mad when you do that.

@LordShadowfire Sad that when people who claim they had sources and read these sources, etc and claim their logic comes from these sources can't really produce these sources.

@Pherick @LordShadowfire

See LordShadowfire! I told you his objective in being here was to troll and that's all he's been doing since he arrived here!

@swirlie Everything I have said so far, the sources I have read, the questions I have asked and all you take from that is ... "He is a troll"

I think one of us is being disingenuous and guess what swirlie, its not me.

Do you actually have any data to refute my claims or answer my questions, or just more whining?? Can't wait to read your sources.

@Pherick
I can't wait to find out your reason for being here! It better be legit, so let's hear it!

@swirlie My reason for being here? You mean why am I on a public chat forum?? I think the REAL question is what are YOU doing here. You better have a legit reason!!!

LOL talk about being a troll.

@Pherick
Yeah, that's right! Why are you here? All you've done so far in this particular thread is troll @Carazaa from the outset of her post.

What seems to be your problem in life that you'd actually come on here and focus your entire attention on what's been stated here?

Why would you feel the need to do that as if you were pretending to be a fact-checking cop?

Why are you trolling this website? Do you get off on that action?

@swirlie I haven't trolled her at all. Asking for sources when someone makes scientific claims is not trolling. The fact you think it is, says alot about you.

I bounce all around SW. When I first started I tended to be involved in political conversations, then moved away from those, now just go where my interest takes me. What seems to be your problem in life that you feel the need to "police" where I come and go on SW? Perhaps blocking me and moving on with your life would be a better idea for you, since I bother you so much.

Everyone in the world should be a "fact-checking cop" when it comes to unsourced and undocumented scientific claims.

Again you seem to not understand what the definition of trolling is. Do you get off on following me around and making stupid claims that make no sense? Again, blocking me is probably your best bet. Anyone is free to block me.

@Pherick
[quote]Everyone in the world should be a "fact-checking cop" when it comes to unsourced and undocumented scientific claims.[/quote]

According to who, YOU?!

You are exactly who I thought you were! You are an ego-driven wannabe who likes to troll through websites making a nuisance of himself while making sure everything that's said in everyone's post is true and factually accurate with documented sources to back up everyone's posted information. You are sick!

You still don't get out much since the Covid lockdowns, do you?

@swirlie LOL wow. You sure are angry for someone who thinks I am just a troll. It would probably make more sense for you to block me and move on if you think I am such an "ego-driven wannabe".

The funny part is I barely post here on SW anymore. I barely even come on here, so the fact you think I am "making sure everything that's said in everyone's post is true and factually accurate" is pretty funny.

You think asking people to be honest with their comments and statements is "sick"??? Wow thats pretty weird.

Anyway, feel free to continue to personally try and attack me, let me know if you need me to tell you what kind of logical fallacy that is :)