Meeting with the school

@ninalanyon old 50 years old Karen control freak inc aka school

@ninalanyon Schools in the US and the UK like to control every aspect of a student's life.

@Sharon My children went to school in Norway where the teachers will only require that clothing be appropriate for the activity so a nature studies trip into the woods will require warm, weatherproof clothing. But apart from that sort of thing the students wear what they like. I used to take the bus to work at about the same time that students went to school and have seen teenage girls on the bus who could have just stepped off a Paris cat walk in deep conversation with girls in clothes and boots that looked like combat fatigues. None of it seems to have any negative effect on the education or how they interact socially.

@ninalanyon I went to a public school were i live here in Canada wear what ya want its all good in summer no bikini strap no shorths shortsh that show to much booty or v . hair was no limit we saw it all i had a perm puffy 80s style no one cared .

@ninalanyon In the UK, schools not only dictate what children wear, in some cases right down to the precise shade of their socks, they also dictate where parents buy the clothes - called the school's "Official Suppliers". Larger items have to be branded with the school's logo and school's have been known to demand sight of receipts for things like shoes and underwear to prove they were bought from the official suppliers. Children have been sent home to change or put into isolation because their socks are the "wrong" colour.

The official suppliers effectively have a monopoly in a school's catchment area so are willing to pay a bribe (euphemistically called "commission" or licence to use the school's logo) to be so appointed. Naturally, they need to recoup that outlay and do so by inflating their prices. A pack of polo shirts from the local supermarket at £10 for 5 can easily cost £20 each from the officaial supplier. Overall, even the Government admits it can cost parents ca. £700 to equip a child for secondary school and claim what is supposed to be a free education.

Schools claim uniform is an equaliser but it's easy to differentiate children from impoverished families wearing secondhand uniform from the school shop and those from more affluent families with a brand new uniform each year and items replace as soon as they show signs of wear. Schools also claim unform prevents bullying but it's abundantly clear that doesn't work. At best it just changes who does the bullying - other students or the teachers. I wrote about that here - https://similarworlds.com/random-subjects/question/2763234-What-do-you-call-a-person-who-ostracizes-a-younger It also presumes the more affluent students significantly outnumber the impoverished ones when the opposite is much more often the case. As you observed, various factions, rich and poor, will happily co-exist and interact.

@Sharon [quote]As you observed, various factions, rich and poor, will happily co-exist and interact.[quote]
I wasn't really making that point, I was just saying that the child's sartorial choices didn't seem to divide them sharply into groups. On the subject of rich and poor, the divide is not anywhere near as wide here. And despite prices of new clothes being high here there is a good supply of second hand clothing specifically because the population in general is fairly well off. Poverty does exist of course but it doesn't seem to be quite so bad neither in absolute nor relative terms compared to the UK. For instance the World Bank poverty statistics say that in the UK over 2% of the population has under 10 USD a day to live on, in Norway the figure is 0.6% [1].

One big difference between the UK and Norway is the income difference between the well off and the poor, it is much smaller here. Another big difference is that solidarity is still a live concept. When Cameron said "We're all in it together" no one believed him, if a Norwegian conservative politician were to say the same thing it would be perfectly plausible.

[1]https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poverty-rate-by-country

@Sharon in my era at my grammar school, obligatory uniform was no equaliser at all... once we got past the 1st year, it was quite clear which families had money and those that did not.

The school uniform racket cleary continues in the education system.

In my second primary school in a poorer area from that we moved out of, the school did not insist on a uniform... but it was just as clear who hsd better incomes than others... that school had a real cross section of society.... Head teachers of other school sent their boys and girls there and there were also children from the prefabs next to the school.

Uniforms are not "levellers" ... it is the quality of education and the,teachers that mattere surely?

@Justme264 [quote] in my era at my grammar school, obligatory uniform was no equaliser at all.[/quote]
The same for me, although the schools were all comprehensives (very good schools too) with uniforms. But they didn't fuss so much over little details and also the difference in cost between the official suppliers and general clothing shops was not so great as it is now.

But as you say, we could all spot the children who had to make do with hand me downs. Luckily for us the town at that time was generally quite meritocratic, class and money didn't seem to matter quite so much as they do now.

@ninalanyon i was quite unaware of "class" and snobbery at the time, just accepted that some friends lived in post war prefabs and some in council (sorry... local authority) and we did not.... but by the 3rd year in the grammar school...they gave up on trying to police the uniforms... hem lines went up, some boys trousers became more stylish and were clearly not bought at the d?school supplier. Boys,wearing stylush cardigans... lol.... not the school v neck pullover....

I only mention the grammar school thing because in later years the local secondary modern (later becoming comprehensive as was the school I attended) overtook the grammar school I attended on results and reputation...

Interesting to look back and observe life as it was "many years from now"

@Justme264 There were post war prefabs behind the council house I lived in when I was in primary school (61 to 65), there were demolishing them when I was about 8 or 9. Then we moved into a new built housing estate which the local council (Labour run) had commissioned and sold to council house tenants at pretty much cost prices. Some things really were better, but I wouldn't go back.

@Justme264 School now seem to blame impoverished families' inability to buy overpriced uniforms for the poor quality of education.

@ninalanyon agreed.... we downsized (dad's job move) to a smaller house in a long long avenue.... private houses on end and council and prefab houses the other.... bit of an eye opener... even at my age then.

@Sharon as does the,dept of education i feel

@Justme264 Yes, anything to shift the blame from themselves.