I mean, what is it going to take? What really burns me up is how people have the audacity to mock and harass us healthcare workers, like we are the ones who are responsible for putting you on lockdown 🙄.
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@Bluebirdsonmyshoulder To be fair, I saw a user on who I shall not name mentioning that they will not wear a mask. They never wore one when it started and they wouldn't change that now either.
@Bluebirdsonmyshoulder Worse than it is? You mean, worse than having hospitals full with people intubated for weeks? You clearly don't live near one of the places where it wreaked havoc, do you?
@gol979 Source? Lowest CFR I've seen was at least 100x than that (0.5%).
And besides, I don't get why you downplayers are all fussed with death rates when:
1) if they're low, it's because hospitals aren't overloaded (the moment they are it jumps sky high, even by one or two order of magnitudes - here it peaked at 10%), thanks to the lockdown; 2) all those who die before getting tested aren't counted; 3) the "recovered" who are on a wheelchair after 4 months of hospitalisation, and who're compromised enough to probably die with the next flu (the real one this time, I mean Influenza), won't be counted either.
@Elessar not hard to work amount the amount of deaths globally to the global population. And it's you whose working with pure assumptions based on your 3 points.
@gol979 What is the point of dividing by the total population when the great majority of it hasn't contracted the virus YET (it's estimated to have infected only the 8% of the population of the biggest hotspot over here, and similar numbers are reported by other critically hit areas worldwide)? Going out and pretending it's nothing was dumb three months ago, it's been done and we've all been sorry. But for you epidemiologists graduated from YouTube apparently we need to make the same mistake another time? 🤦♂️
SW-User
@gol979 Downplay it all you want, but the fact is that COVID-19 is no joke. I guess some will just have to learn that the hard way.
@gol979 The three points above are matters of fact, 1) overloaded hospitals are nowhere as efficient as normally operating ones, it doesn't take a genius to understand, ask any ER doc 2) the way numbers are collected is no secret, you need three positive PCR tests to be counted as a positive case here and 3) yep, you also need to be dead (with a positive PCR) to be in the deaths as well.
Sweden social life is radically different than my and probably also your country habits, even in non-pandemic times, wanna bet? As a plus, there might be genetic or even food factors at play. Pretending the pandemic doesn't exist at least in communities where it already happened to spread like wildfire is quite idiotic.
@gol979 Don't say things I've never said. Different cultural habits means people there probably don't have the same customs that may potentially facilitate the spreads. Last time I checked, people in Sweden aren't as fond of hugs, handshakes, kisses in the cheeks, as people here are, for instance. All things that would go exactly in the opposite direction of what should be done to prevent the contagion, and possibly contribute.
Besides, if you compare Sweden (blue) and Norway (orange) the figures are pretty different:
(daily increment of total cases, source: John Hopkins, charted through https://github.com/paolini/covid19-charts)
As a plus, like I said, being it a novel virus we don't know yet why in some areas people tend to turn critical more frequently than in others - there is an infinite plethora of possibilities of correlation: genetics, food habits, climate, vit-d deficiency, pollution, and so on.
The only thing that is clear is that in areas where its already proven to cause disasters, pretending (again) it's just a flu is the stupidest thing we can possibly do.
@gol979 Can you even read in totum what I just wrote, or simply you don't have anymore arguments and you play the turning to a court jester card now? Almost everything you state goes against the data you yourself mentioned, lol
@Elessar really. Where's the data im quoting false? And yeah I can read.......you think the virus isn't bad in Sweden cause they aren't fond of hugging 👍
@gol979 You keep extracting parts of an entire discussion out of context to make your own assumption sound "more true". I've provided multiple contributory causes for why the virus might be affecting Sweden differently than us, but of course you focus on only one point because your kind always have to play the jester when they don't know how to reply, obviously, and that was the part that sounded better for your "joke". In any cases I haven't seen scenes such as these amid the worst phase of the pandemic coming out of Sweden, since you're really fond of this Sweden vs anybody comparison: [media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC9aLFQxWuc]
Also, you implied Finland is equally affected as Sweden:
Ok, well compare Sweden (no lockdown) to Norway (lockdown).
When I've shown you through a chart and the same official data you mentioned that it's bullshit. And of course you've stopped replying to that, guess why.
I've also mentioned it's dumb to divide the total deaths by the whole global population, and explained why, and strangely, also after that, you stopped replying.
Just as it's dumb pretending the pandemic doesn't exist in critically affected areas, especially after that strategy has already been tried and proven to be ineffective and catastrophic in those very same areas.
So in the end, believe whatever you want to believe, but playing the court jester and trying to be "fun" just makes you and your point less credible and pretty laughable to whoever reads this discussion. ;)
@Elessar I don't mean to burst your bubble but the people in charge reduced the risk of the virus being a pandemic back on March 18th.
You keep burying your head to the official data, the huge negative health impacts of this lockdown, the destruction of people's businesses and livelihoods, the printing of trillions of dollars to bail out business (again), the societal changes, changes to the law and keep wishing in techno fascism.
@gol979 The economic aspect of the lockdown wasn't the matter of the discussion here, nor has ever been, you stated multiple false (epidemiological) claims I had to counter one by one with, and you're now trying to regain some ground by bringing in another topic in. But anyway, let's respond by points:
You keep burying your head to the official data
Ah, now you repeal the very same data you tried to use a few comments before to justify your assertions (failing)?
The countries that implemented some forms of lockdown / positives isolation earlier are the ones that objectively came out of this better (South Korea, Taiwan), and will probably also economically - those who implemented them tighter and whose population cooperated, even if too late to prevent a disaster, such as Italy, are in a much better epidemiological situation than those that kept downplaying the whole situation even when it was evident it was much worse than they predicted (Brazil, U.S. and even the U.K. to some extent).
the huge negative health impacts of this lockdown, the destruction of people's businesses and livelihoods, the printing of trillions of dollars to bail out business (again), the societal changes
As if letting the virus spread, become endemic, killing even more than it did, wouldn't have worse economic and social consequences. You wouldn't travel, eat out, and generally spend in non-essentials were you or one of your loved ones gravely sick, I can assure you - nobody would trust leaving their homes or gathering once reality slaps them for real and the threat to their health is no more something they just hear about on TV. And nobody would trust a government/society that put their or their loved ones life at risk more than one that temporarily(*) reduced their freedom to prevent the spread of a novel disease.
(*) Temporarily, yes, over here most of the lockdown measures are being lifted already.
changes to the law
Obviously you don't know what a state of emergency is nor how it works (it's reversible, always been in history so far - over here for isntance we're alredy reversing some of the measures already, like I previously stated), and/or probably you were lucky enough to live in a place and time when and where it was never required as of yet. Welcome to the real world: catastrophes happen and require government interventions.
keep wishing in techno fascism.
Fascism, really? Do you even know what it was? You're comparing having to stay in your home for a few months with all kind of comforts to a historic period where people were hiding in their homes with not even running water, scarce food, and often not even a sufficient source of heat in Winter, and would often receive visits from officials that would take away their husbands/sons to either send them to a war-front of kill them in the street? Those lucky enough not to get bombed, at least. My grandma who survived *years* of WW2 with fascists breaking in her apartment like once a week to run searches, and who brought away her brothers as well, would like to have a word or two with you.
The only dictatorship I've seen during this lockdown is the one in the head of the idiots. Slaves of their own idiocy and misinformation campaigns they fall for, like fishes with the lamest bait. I remember people demolishing cell-phone antennas, thinking they could be digitally infected, others praising leaders that thought would be smart trying to inject disinfectants such as bleach in people's bloodstream, just for saying how dumb people can be...
@gol979 Again, you can't read? Too long for your brain to process? I'm stating simple facts, supported by data and evidence you can verify yourself, and countering your bullshit. If you don't have any more arguments, maybe stop making fun of yourself.
compare Sweden (no lockdown) to Norway (lockdown).
We do not have lockdown here in Norway and never had. We had restrictions on spending the night in your holiday home if it was in a different kommune to your home and we have to go into quarantine on return if we leave the country. Businesses that require close contact with customers (hair dressers, physios, etc.) and large gatherings (sports events, theatres) were temporarily closed as were bars that could not maintain social distancing. Many retail business closed voluntarily because of a lack of customers, unfortunately some will never reopen having gone bankrupt.
But private individuals were always free to move around. We merely followed advice on distancing.
I'm getting tired of having to point these things out not just but also on Quora and other fora.
The principal difference between Norway and Sweden is that Norway reacted sooner and also that lifestyle and living arrangements are a little different, Swedes seem more likely to live in blocks of flats close to each other while Norwegians tend to be more spaced out.
