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An important aspect of science is being open to and even seeking out that which might disprove your theory.


While i am no scientist, to this end i would like to hear from you folks regarding what evidence you feel shows that evolution didn't happen or couldn't happen.

Also, if you have any questions or criticisms of evolution theory, i would be happy to address them to the best of my ability.
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gregloa · 61-69, M
An important aspect of God and Christianity is being open to and even seeking out that which might disprove your theory. I would like to hear from you regarding what evidence you feel shows that Christianity or God didn’t happen or couldn’t happen. You said creationists scientists fail trying to find support for their beliefs not testing it against reality??? You’re not realizing this bold statement doesn’t make any sense. If you know what you’re talking about here then you know that it’s faith based rendering your statement baseless and obviously incorrect. Christianity doesn’t deny evolution it simply believes God created it. As you know time and time again unbelieving scientists find themselves or their theories wrong. I wonder why? Obviously non believers such as yourself refuse to believe because it condemns you and you falsely believe it condemns evolution. It doesn’t, but it may not absolutely agree with what scientists insist is absolutely the gospel concerning reality. Then they discover the flaws in their theory and are struck with the question how could they have been wrong. But yet they are very much trying to find support for their beliefs and always manage to find an excuse for why they were wrong and an explanation that they hope and expect the world to accept proving that once again they are right. Did you hear what I just said?? If you have any questions or criticisms of Christianity, I would be happy to address them to the best of my ability.
@gregloa




Christianity doesn’t deny evolution it simply believes God created it

...Ok...what are you so riled up about?
Why have you taken my invitation to discuss evolution as some kind of personal attack on your religion?
Is it that ol persecution fetish again?

An important aspect of God and Christianity is being open to and even seeking out that which might disprove your theory.

lol Nah.
I get that you're trying to ape my post saying "No, YOU" but that is demonstrably not what Christianity does.
Many Christians and Creationist foundations explicitly state that whatever appears to contradict the bible cannot be true.

And i can prove that to you right now: Hypothetically, what evidence could be presented to you that would convince you that god is not real and Jesus was just a human preacher?
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
I’m not riled up. 🤣😂 what theory of mine should I seek out what might disprove it? Don’t try to convince me now that you’re not obviously trying to trash Christianity. People and foundations have their own opinions but that doesn’t mean they are True Christians. Christianity doesn’t disbelieve evolution they just don’t worship it. You’re not talking about Christians, you’re talking about evolution haters. Big difference. I’m open to any discussion with you my friend. I don’t want to seem riled up. You and I are probably much alike other than the obvious.
@gregloa

Don’t try to convince me now that you’re not obviously trying to trash Christianity.


...this is why you seem riled up.
You saw a thread about evolution which in your own words is not incompatible with Christianity and felt attacked and attacked back and now continue to make accusations.

But sure, let's move past that. I'll assume you're not getting upset and you assume that i'm not here to trash Christianity.

So i'll refer you back to the OP. Let me know if you're interested in engaging with that.
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu agreed and yes.
@gregloa

Right on.
Well the floor is yours.
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
Ok, well I do believe in evolution but I also believe that evolution is God’s creation. Scientist tend to insist on unreliable evidence as fact like using is or did rather than might or may have been etc. knowing full well how unreliable the evidence is or may be. For instance carbon dating. Radioactive decay of carbon 14 has a half life of about 5730 years. Anything older than this has such a minimal amount of carbon left that accuracy is non existent and contamination is absolute. So anything scientists say is millions of years old is at best a very far fetched guess. Give or take millions of years literally. So the only real proof they have of how old anything is is about 6000 years old. Opinion?
@gregloa

using is or did rather than might or may have been

Ohhh, i think you're pretty wrong about that.
Scientists tend, in my experience, to you use pretty careful language. I think you'll find a lot of declarative statements in documentaries and such but in actual scientific literature you will definitely be seeing language like "it appears", "the evidence suggests", "we think" etc.

For instance carbon dating. Radioactive decay of carbon 14 has a half life of about 5730 years. Anything older than this has such a minimal amount of carbon left that accuracy is non existent and contamination is absolute. So anything scientists say is millions of years old is at best a very far fetched guess

I see this a lot when discussing radiometric dating.
Carbon dating is used to date things from several centuries old to about 50-70,000 years old. And we know it's accurate in that range because scientists have used it to corroborate historical events like the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. The dates achieved from carbon dating samples from sites like Pompeii match the historical dates of the eruption.

But what about things that go beyond that upper limit of 70,000 years?
Well that's why i mentioned radiometric dating at the top: Carbon dating is not the only radio isotope scientists use to date things. There are other elements with longer half lives that are used to date older things.
How do we know they are reliable though???
Because they can be checked against other measure like tree rings and ice varves and all converge on the same time period. That is to say there are independent lines of evidence which corroborate each other.

So the only real proof they have of how old anything is is about 6000 years old.

Forget about radiometric dating, we know just using tree rings that there is far more time than 6,000 or even 10,000 years of history on earth.
How?
We know tree's lay down rings about once per season. There is some variation in that which we can get into if you want but it is a very reliable record overall. Additionally, we can detect in those rings seasons of good growth, poor growth, fires etc. and we can match those rings with younger and older trees.
That is to say, we need not find a 10,000 year old tree if we can find 10 trees overlapping in life times. And beyond that we can find a tree with so many rings which was felled and used in buildings which can then be dated to several thousand years so we know the tree grew even older than that!
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
Accurate past 6000 years requires an absolute perfect uncontaminated sample and even then carbon content is unreliable past 6000 years. Yes they can somewhat test the surrounding sediment of fossils to try and get a somewhat accurate estimate of age however many factors can disrupt this theory also. They also look at sedimentation worldwide and a lot of times still just an educated guess. Anything else you would like to discuss?
@gregloa

Anything else you would like to discuss?

...um yeah.
I don't think you really engaged with that last post.

1) Carbon dating has been show to be accurate as it can be used to achieve dates corroborated by recorded historic events. Please discuss.

2) I pointed out that science uses other kinds of radiometric dating that do not use carbon to date things which fall outside the range of carbon dating. Please discuss.

After you address those points we can discuss other scientific observations which preclude a young earth, if indeed you contend that the earth is only 6,000 years old.
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
I didn’t contend the age of earth. That’s what I was talking about when I mentioned sediment testing when carbon is absent as is the case in dinosaur bones that are supposed to be millions of years old. They can only test the surrounding sediment for uranium and other materials but it is somewhat disagreeable as to the accuracy of because of many unknown factors they can be forced to again assume according to the evidence that is available, not necessarily fact.
@gregloa

So i'm not really sure then what you're objection is here.

We know carbon dating works because it can be corroborated by other dating techniques.
We know other types of radiometric dating are reliable...because they can be corroborated by other dating techniques.

Was there anything else on the topic of dating or would you like to move on to something else?
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
Move on.
@gregloa

Ok, what would you like to move on to?
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
You pick
@gregloa

lol i can't.
The stated subject is to address contentions that evolution can't/didn't happen or to answer questions about evolution.
I don't want to just start talking about some random subject that doesn't apply to your position.

So again, the floor is yours.
Or of course you can say that you're done. Nothing wrong with that.
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
You know my position, so what would you like to discuss whether on my position or yours? You take the floor this time. Evolution, Christianity, science or anything else we might learn from each others views?
@gregloa

Actually i don't really know your position.

You accept that evolution has occurred but don't think the earth is older than 6000 years?

Not trying to be difficult but if you don't have a question or a challenge then i don't really know where to go from here
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu I don’t necessarily believe the earth is only 6000 years old. My position is I believe in God and I believe the Bible is his word. I believe that much of the Bible is misinterpreted. What is time? The earth rotates and orbits the sun. Is that time? What about everything else? What is time to God? Did God create time? How many times exist? Why don’t you believe in God? Challenge me.
@gregloa

I think you would get a lot out of watching Dan McClellan's videos.
He's a biblical scholar whose priority is reading the bible as much as possible as it was meant to be read by the authors and audience of the time.

But if you had to place a bet on it, would you say the earth is billions of years old or around 6,000 years old?
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
Scripture says one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like one day to the Lord. Do the math. I think the Bible is so misunderstood and misinterpreted it’s no wonder people don’t believe. Yes I believe the earth is probably around 4.5 billion years old just as scientists say. To be honest, I could care less. I don’t believe the Bible contradicts that. Frankly it’s none of our business. If God explained every detail of his creation in the Bible it would be so large no one could or would read it all. Why would a true Christian have anything to do with such an argument is beyond me. I’m not talking about our conversation here as I’m not arguing with you friend. I’ll check his videos.
@gregloa

Do the math

lol not really sure what you mean by that.

But it sounds like you accept evolution and the old age of the earth. So if you go ahead and look up a bit more about how radiometric dating works and how we know it's reliable then i don't know that we have too much more to discuss in the context of this post
gregloa · 61-69, M
@Pikachu
Ok then, catch you later.just answer one question. Do you believe in the possibility that there is a God ?
@gregloa

Sure it's possible. I don't think there's any compelling evidence to believe that one exists but it's possible.
In the same way that is it possible that an alien civilization seeded life on this planet though we have no legitimate evidence to accept that this is so.