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Yeah we know it is there. We can see the effects in different ways. The same can be applied to God. When his mission was over with here he went back to his father in heaven and so that's why it takes Faith now in the Bible says we walk by faith not by sight. So just because we can't see things, and think how many microorganisms and things that are so small and finite that we would never ever be able to see them if we tried, yet they are still very real. Just like the Flora in our colon. We can't see it yet we reap the benefits of it helping with digestion and keeping our colon clean, etc. It is very real and so is God.
@LadyGrace
Oh i didn't realize you accepted evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on the planet. I was under the impression you thought god created all life in more or less its present form as described in Genesis.
It can't really. Not in the same way as i've described in my other post here.
Yeah we know it is there.
Oh i didn't realize you accepted evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on the planet. I was under the impression you thought god created all life in more or less its present form as described in Genesis.
The same can be applied to God
It can't really. Not in the same way as i've described in my other post here.
@Pikachu no, I was talking about this other lady and to her and then you messaged me right okay and I was using her as a reference for why some things are okay for her but not for me. I purely do not believe in evolution. I find the concept ridiculous. It always comes back to if man came from ape then worded ape come from and somebody would have had to create an ape I mean it goes on and on it's just ridiculous. And without God's hand in it, none of this would be possible. Who made the molecule? Who made the Stars? And wow isn't it amazing that if it was evolution how nice and neat they all came in a package due to the Big bang. I think that's an insult to our intelligence. So in the Big bang all these elements out in space all came together just perfectly and then formed the Earth and was also by some wild coincidence, produced light and made nice little trees and flowers and wow even created man. And on top of all that, how amazing it is it that it made all these little intricate beautiful details all by itself. These rocks must have been really smart. These non-breathing non-speaking nonseen meteorites or astronauts and then as they flew through space, BAM!!!! All these things were created. I sure never knew rocks have brains. Hahaha I'll have to see about getting a pet rock and talking to it and learning from it. That's about how much sense it makes. That would be like an airplane flying in the sky and all of a sudden it just broke down and it even blew up! Yet when it fell to the ground, it magically and automatically just fell right into the place and made a brand new airplane from all those thousands of pieces from hitting the ground. Now tell me what the chances of that are and can't you see how ridiculous that sounds. And people call Christian beliefs delusional and fanciful. The other way in which I just described evolution, sounds even more delirious. It's just not possible. It sounds to me like something a kid would say that has no understanding. If we evolved from apes or gorillas, then all gorillas should be able to speak like we do. And our limbs should be exactly the same length as gorillas and we should walk like they do but unfortunately, the structure of their bones will not even allow them to straighten their legs when they walk so that means we should be walking like that too since we came from them. You see how ridiculous that sounds? There's no way we came from gorillas or apes.
@LadyGrace
Oh so here we have a real opportunity to learn and perhaps correct some of the misconceptions responsible for your rather inaccurate characterization of evolution.
First i'll make the minor correction that evolution does not hold that humans evolved from gorillas but rather that humans and gorillas diverged from a common ancestor.
Answer this question for me, if you would be so kind:
Based on what you understand about evolution, why do you think that if humans and gorillas share a common evolutionary ancestor that gorillas should also be able to speak?
Why do you think our limbs should be the same as their limbs?
With the understanding that evolution is decent with modification why do you conclude that either of those circumstances are the necessary results of shared evolutionary ancestry?
I won't.
Because what you've described is a straw man representation of how science understands the universe and life to have developed.
To put it in perspective, what you've just described is the same as me describing Christianity as god messing up creation so that humans were inherently sinful and then he had to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole in the rules he made so that he could then forgive people.
Now you wouldn't consider that a fair or accurate description of Christianity, would you?
Of course not.
So please don't characterize a materialist genesis of the universe in the same uncharitable fashion.
If we evolved from apes or gorillas, then all gorillas should be able to speak like we do. And our limbs should be exactly the same length as gorillas
Oh so here we have a real opportunity to learn and perhaps correct some of the misconceptions responsible for your rather inaccurate characterization of evolution.
First i'll make the minor correction that evolution does not hold that humans evolved from gorillas but rather that humans and gorillas diverged from a common ancestor.
Answer this question for me, if you would be so kind:
Based on what you understand about evolution, why do you think that if humans and gorillas share a common evolutionary ancestor that gorillas should also be able to speak?
Why do you think our limbs should be the same as their limbs?
With the understanding that evolution is decent with modification why do you conclude that either of those circumstances are the necessary results of shared evolutionary ancestry?
Now tell me what the chances of that are and can't you see how ridiculous that sounds.
I won't.
Because what you've described is a straw man representation of how science understands the universe and life to have developed.
To put it in perspective, what you've just described is the same as me describing Christianity as god messing up creation so that humans were inherently sinful and then he had to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole in the rules he made so that he could then forgive people.
Now you wouldn't consider that a fair or accurate description of Christianity, would you?
Of course not.
So please don't characterize a materialist genesis of the universe in the same uncharitable fashion.
@Pikachu well I'm just saying that's exactly how ridiculous your concept of evolution sounds. And my understanding was taken from many unbelievers who have said the same thing and that's why I use them as an example. Not to be rude but your examples sound just as ridiculous to me as mine do to you hahaha only difference is I can prove mine are correct about my beliefs because they match up with God's word and he is no liar but of course to you who does not believe in God, that cannot be applied. But that does not mean that mine are incorrect. Like I said at least I have God's word to back it up, though you don't believe it. My beliefs do not have to match up with yours in order for mine to be authentic.
Mine is not a strong man representation. It is a common sense representation. You cannot tell me that you actually believe that meteorites etc clash together and formed the Earth and then in orderly manner, created the oceans and then man, come on. And I don't mean that sarcastically but that sounds like something a kid would say. That only begs to ask who made all these meteorites etc or whatever you want to call them in outer space that made the Earth and people in the whole works? Rocks don't have a brain, nor can they put things in order and the universe drastically demonstrates that there was an order about things and that concludes intelligence, not from rocks that God himself made.
If you're going to conclude and this is what I have heard unbelievers say, humans evolved from certain primates, whether it's a gorilla or ape or whatever, but if you're going to say we evolved from them and we can see that the chart shows the sequence until the 8th supposedly stood straight up like man, if that is true, then we can only conclude that our skeletal frame should match that of the primate we came from according to evolutionists. We should not be able to stand straight up and even for example sake, apes or gorillas do not have a comparable frame to the gorilla or ape.
I'm looking at a very small screen on my phone here. And I'm seeing questions that I didn't even get a chance to answer yet and evolution is way too broad a subject to get into I mean that could be discussed for ages and I'm not willing to get that tied down and heavy with that. And though I'm not as knowledgeable as you are on the subject of evolution I have the basic understanding but I cannot go as deep into it as you do and I don't even think that's necessary. The point is we disagree on evolution. I would rather discuss something that I feel comfortable in. I mean there's plenty of other things we can discuss and compare in or beliefs. But I will say that I believe in creation because my Bible tells me so and I know that doesn't sound like very concrete evidence to you but then we are comparing the physical realm with the spiritual and they were not meant to match and they don't match. The principles and laws that hold true in the physical realm are a lot different from those in the spiritual realm and you cannot mix the two, however I have not had any sleep for about 3 days straight and I'm not thinking at peak capacity hahaha so I will put this on pause until I can actually function properly. Haha but it was fun.
Mine is not a strong man representation. It is a common sense representation. You cannot tell me that you actually believe that meteorites etc clash together and formed the Earth and then in orderly manner, created the oceans and then man, come on. And I don't mean that sarcastically but that sounds like something a kid would say. That only begs to ask who made all these meteorites etc or whatever you want to call them in outer space that made the Earth and people in the whole works? Rocks don't have a brain, nor can they put things in order and the universe drastically demonstrates that there was an order about things and that concludes intelligence, not from rocks that God himself made.
If you're going to conclude and this is what I have heard unbelievers say, humans evolved from certain primates, whether it's a gorilla or ape or whatever, but if you're going to say we evolved from them and we can see that the chart shows the sequence until the 8th supposedly stood straight up like man, if that is true, then we can only conclude that our skeletal frame should match that of the primate we came from according to evolutionists. We should not be able to stand straight up and even for example sake, apes or gorillas do not have a comparable frame to the gorilla or ape.
I'm looking at a very small screen on my phone here. And I'm seeing questions that I didn't even get a chance to answer yet and evolution is way too broad a subject to get into I mean that could be discussed for ages and I'm not willing to get that tied down and heavy with that. And though I'm not as knowledgeable as you are on the subject of evolution I have the basic understanding but I cannot go as deep into it as you do and I don't even think that's necessary. The point is we disagree on evolution. I would rather discuss something that I feel comfortable in. I mean there's plenty of other things we can discuss and compare in or beliefs. But I will say that I believe in creation because my Bible tells me so and I know that doesn't sound like very concrete evidence to you but then we are comparing the physical realm with the spiritual and they were not meant to match and they don't match. The principles and laws that hold true in the physical realm are a lot different from those in the spiritual realm and you cannot mix the two, however I have not had any sleep for about 3 days straight and I'm not thinking at peak capacity hahaha so I will put this on pause until I can actually function properly. Haha but it was fun.
@LadyGrace
I don't demand that you abandon your position, i just insist that you correctly understand what you are arguing against.
Evolution is directly observable in the laboratory as life changing over subsequent generations.
So if humans and gorillas sprang from the same ape ancestor but began changing in different ways in different populations...why would you expect modern humans and modern gorillas to still be the same?
Perhaps it would be useful for you to tell me in basic terms how you understand the process of evolution to function.
We don't have to get deep into evolution but i would discourage you from shying away from discussing it on the basis that you feel your understanding of it is shaky. That is exactly the sort of subject you should be exposing yourself to, otherwise how would you ever expect to become more knowledgeable in that area?
There are certainly many subjects we can discuss but in this thread we are discussing evolution.
You are under no obligation to stay in this thread but as long as you do, that's the subject.
So get some rest and if you feel so inclined, come back and discuss this subject again when you're feeling refreshed.
lol no, i cannot tell you that because that is not what i believe. That is what makes your characterization a straw man.
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.
I don't demand that you abandon your position, i just insist that you correctly understand what you are arguing against.
Evolution is directly observable in the laboratory as life changing over subsequent generations.
So if humans and gorillas sprang from the same ape ancestor but began changing in different ways in different populations...why would you expect modern humans and modern gorillas to still be the same?
Perhaps it would be useful for you to tell me in basic terms how you understand the process of evolution to function.
We don't have to get deep into evolution but i would discourage you from shying away from discussing it on the basis that you feel your understanding of it is shaky. That is exactly the sort of subject you should be exposing yourself to, otherwise how would you ever expect to become more knowledgeable in that area?
There are certainly many subjects we can discuss but in this thread we are discussing evolution.
You are under no obligation to stay in this thread but as long as you do, that's the subject.
So get some rest and if you feel so inclined, come back and discuss this subject again when you're feeling refreshed.
You cannot tell me that you actually believe that meteorites etc clash together and formed the Earth and then in orderly manner, created the oceans and then man, come on.
lol no, i cannot tell you that because that is not what i believe. That is what makes your characterization a straw man.
A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.