All I want is an environmentalist consumer org that doesn't fall for the organic hogwash
Is that so much to ask? Organic is an environmental and animal rights disaster.
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DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
At it's beginning, back in the 60s really with the hippie movement, it wasn't this extreme.
Yet extremism seems to be the in thing on all sides. Problem is neither side doesn't take into account that nature believes in change.
Either way nature is going to be giving us one hell of a ride all too soon.
Yet extremism seems to be the in thing on all sides. Problem is neither side doesn't take into account that nature believes in change.
Either way nature is going to be giving us one hell of a ride all too soon.
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DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@BlueVeins no I am arguing that change is natural. Because even on it's own without man interfering it still will change. Just not the way man wants it to change.
To say one side is right over the other is utter nonsense. There's no black and white to the picture. It's in multiple hues some of which we can not even see.
And since we can not see the color we remain ignorant.
To say one side is right over the other is utter nonsense. There's no black and white to the picture. It's in multiple hues some of which we can not even see.
And since we can not see the color we remain ignorant.
DeWayfarer · 61-69, M
@BlueVeins never said either thing.
In fact change is life, which is both.
The everything changes. As Nature abhors a vacuum so does change abhor a stasis.
The change in the environment (mathematically speaking dx/dt, a mathematical derivative) is extremely real.
In fact change is life, which is both.
The everything changes. As Nature abhors a vacuum so does change abhor a stasis.
The change in the environment (mathematically speaking dx/dt, a mathematical derivative) is extremely real.
ViciDraco · 36-40, M
Organic - for when you would rather let most of the planet starve before trusting science and technology.
Organic, much like crypto, is one of those things I am happy to say I've never really fallen for. The logistics of feeding everyone through organic farming just isn't going to work with today's population count. The amount of raw land you would need for that. And organic livestock usually just means they don't give them medicine to prevent sickness or even when they get sick. That's honestly a good way to get some new plagues going. Not to mention the suffering of the sick animals.
Conventional farming isn't the best on animal rights either, but they don't really pretend the way organic does.
Organic, much like crypto, is one of those things I am happy to say I've never really fallen for. The logistics of feeding everyone through organic farming just isn't going to work with today's population count. The amount of raw land you would need for that. And organic livestock usually just means they don't give them medicine to prevent sickness or even when they get sick. That's honestly a good way to get some new plagues going. Not to mention the suffering of the sick animals.
Conventional farming isn't the best on animal rights either, but they don't really pretend the way organic does.
SomeMichGuy · M
? How so?
SomeMichGuy · M
@BlueVeins I've seen some different studies but they are talking about certain types of crops.
I don't see why organic fruit trees, fir instance, would require more land, and even the stated 40% in a German study might overestimate what is required.
But framing it that way--yield per acre id the only measure--ignores other measures, incl. effects upon the soil, health of the consumers, cost of additional chemicals soil conditioners, pesticides, etc., and their effect upon the ecosystem.
Sustainable, right-sizing of yields is important...and teaching Westerners NOT to overeat.
I don't see why organic fruit trees, fir instance, would require more land, and even the stated 40% in a German study might overestimate what is required.
But framing it that way--yield per acre id the only measure--ignores other measures, incl. effects upon the soil, health of the consumers, cost of additional chemicals soil conditioners, pesticides, etc., and their effect upon the ecosystem.
Sustainable, right-sizing of yields is important...and teaching Westerners NOT to overeat.
BlueVeins · 22-25
@SomeMichGuy Organic tends to use more land bc there's less yield per acre, which is in turn because of more interference from weeds & pests. It's true that land use isn't the end-all be-all (though health of consumer can be resolved by washing your damn vegetables), but land use is pretty important among all things.
SomeMichGuy · M
@BlueVeins The study I saw quoted that more land was used for, e.g., nitrogen-fixing plants between the intended crop.
Of course, the growers could be smarter. The Native Americans used maize/corn, beans, squash in a mix which keeps the soil in better condition. All of those are harvestable crops.
Washing your vegetables doesn't fix things, because you sprayed poison into the air, it got in the soil, it ran off and got into water.
Of course, the growers could be smarter. The Native Americans used maize/corn, beans, squash in a mix which keeps the soil in better condition. All of those are harvestable crops.
Washing your vegetables doesn't fix things, because you sprayed poison into the air, it got in the soil, it ran off and got into water.