I Am In College

@Madhatter effeminate doesn't equal gay. Gay equals gay. Plenty of effeminate straight guys out there. Just look at all the hipsters.

Either way, not in effeminate OR gay guys.

@PennyHenny Yeah, but if people called you homophobe, I assumed it was because the effeminate guy was gay. Otherwise I'd just be confused how gay even came in to the conversation. And you still ended on saying you don't like gay guys, which still fits homophobia, confusing me as to why we're still talking about this. I'm just confused in general at this point.

@PennyHenny [i][c=#BF0000]maybe Madhatter missed your field of study...basically...LANGUAGE. Where "homo-phobe" means "fear of...."

I heard nothing to suggest you have a fear of Homos. Just a lack of affinity for them. Like I have for the in-articulate use of the English language.

I'm not "homophobic" either, but I DO resent that community hi-jacking the word "gay" to lend social acceptance of their community. "Gay" to me meant joyful & exuberant. Would you like to insert the definition of the study "linguistics" here, PennyHenny?[/c][/i]

@SirSukl You do realize that homophobia is used for people who hate homosexuals because that hatred is based off of fear, yes? Fear of a group of people they don't understand? You see, language is a tricky thing where words can change meaning or spelling depending on popular opinion. One such example would be the word "faggot." It's a word that originally meant a bundle of sticks to be burned. The word has taken on a very different meaning in the modern day. Language evolves. If you're going to insult someone to impress a girl, I do recommend you have a leg to stand on before making the attempt.

@Madhatter I don't know if he's gay. I didn't ask and it's not my business. People love to bring anything to the talk to make them look special or a victim these days.

and no, gay guys bring way too much drama with them so I generally steer clear.

@SirSukl Exactly. No fear here, just preference.

linguistics

noun, plural in form but singular in construction  lin·guis·tics  \ liŋ-ˈgwi-stiks \

the study of human speech including the units, nature, structure, and modification of language

[i][c=#BF0000]I have no "fear" or "hatred" of homosexuals, hatter. I simply don't give them much thought either way. There are many things I don't much consider, but I believe linguistics and English usage are important. There are cultural changes in word usages that evolve through generations. But misdirecting meanings to achieve a specific social change victimizes language.
Much like your agenda to "accuse" and discredit all who don't accept YOUR meanings and agenda to promote social acceptance.
"phobia" is from ANCIENT Greek. YOU attached the "hatred" to it yourself. Nice try, but rational people know their likes, dislikes, and disINTERESTS without your direction.

V[/c][/i]

Ever wonder if all that "drama" is what makes them "gay"?

Personally I avoid drama as much as possible...I much prefer serenity and calm discourse. But that's just my personal preference.

Serenity doesn't make me "gay"...just peaceful. ;-"

V@PennyHenny

@SirSukl I never said you did. I said Penny did, because she admitted to it. Twice. I too believe that English usage is important, that's why I took the time to explain it to you. No, I did not attach meaning to a word. Society at large attached meaning to those words over the course of the last two decades. There is no evidence to suggest that any words meaning was changed to fit a specific social agenda. As far as I can tell, that's something you either made up or heard somewhere and have been passing on as "truth." A word being ancient does not influence the meaning or usage. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that in most cases hatred stems from fear. You say I have an agenda to accuse. When ever did it happen? I'm not the one who accused her of being homophobic, I simply pointed out that she said she doesn't like effeminate men (who we are assuming is gay because they felt the need to include it) which seems to fit the popular definition of homophobia. Much like my earlier example of "I'm not racist, I just don't like black people." Like Penny, you're arguing that you can not like black people and not be racist. However, I think if you were to poll 1000 Americans, at least 980 would say that that would fit either "racism" or "xenophobia." Not caring either way is one thing, but that wasn't the case here. The case is a clear "I don't like them" followed by a stereotype lumping all homosexuals together: "gay men come with too much drama."

I don't know Penny enough to say for sure that she is homophobic, I'm only saying that based on this conversation, it shouldn't be any kind of surprise that she gives off that impression.

As for agendas, isn't it you who began by insulting my intelligence and then insisting that I'm wrong because... you said so? It's very clear you're trying to get in Penny's good graces and I'm embarrassed for you. Now, I've stopped notifications for this thread as it's pretty clear this will go nowhere. Good luck and I hope going forward you will put a little more thought in to your behavior.

@SirSukl same here, but I am very honest on where I stand and very open. If people act like a stereotype it pushes me away.

@Madhatter TL;DR

I'm not afraid of gay men, I just don't like the drama that comes with most of them. That's not fear.

[i][c=#BF0000]Well thank God hatter isn't following this thread anymore.

His "Society at large attached meaning to those words over the course of the last two decades." comment sounds like "revolution" of a term rather than the natural culturally driven "evolution" of the term. I've been here during those mentioned decades and some before it. There has been a "cultural revolution" to promote social acceptance of the homosexual community. If you doubt it, ask yourself why there is no celebrated "Heterosexual Pride Day" anywhere in the Christian World?

I don't think there is a need to promote a natural order of things. Social evolution speaks for itself. Racism, homophobia, genocide, eco-pollution are among issues that need social campaigns to gain acceptability.

Need an example? See what Donald Trump tweets about Global Warming the next time a chunk of the Antarctic the size of a New England state breaks off. Just because you keep repeating an deception doesn't make it true. [/c][/i]

@SirSukl All I know is that he confused my using effeminate to mean gay. If that's what he thinks of when he hears effeminate then that's his issue.

[i][c=#BF0000]His "issue", Penny, is "synonomizing" the "gay" and "rainbow" image with homosexuality. That's why it has taken only 2 decades to accomplish. Constant sales pitching.

American society, like many Christian cultures, formerly associated homosexuality with "undesirable or detestable" imagery. How better to combat that SOCIETAL NORM than with images already accepted with fondness by the same culture? They could have chosen puppies and kittens or bunnies just as well. After all, who objects to those?

If you don't "invite" the homosexual community into your paradigm, then you're "homophobic" and therefore full of hate. Shame on you!

Your post, Penny, simply offered a forum...a soapbox from which to continue this "sales-pitch." Never mind what reality YOU "design" into YOUR life. If it goes against "LGGBTG-XYZ" COMMUNITY'S agenda, then YOU are "hateful." Something that no one wants to be accused of.

V [/c][/i]

@SirSukl Ah I see where your coming from. I don't mind being called hateful since everyone these days are calling racist or homophobe or whatever people like to use as s weapon.

[i][c=#BF0000]It is a widely used tactic, Penny. After decades of observing its use, one must be vigilant NOT to become too cynical of this World.

In His last speech to the American People, President Eisenhower warned Americans AGAINST the dangers of allowing/supporting establishment of a military industrial complex. Why?
Zoom forward to the present and contemplate the effect of [b]questioning[/b] the wisdom or efficacy of DECADES of sustained(and undeclared) warfare. Does posing inquiries or more domestic solutions make one Unpatriotic? Who would DARE to risk their patriotism being challenged by one's own "society?"
Best just "go-along" rather than to question...right?

Apropos to nothing, "follow the money."

In the patriotic frenzy post 9/11, President Bush announced The Patriotic Act and got rousing support. Did anyone hear the Bill of Rights whirring through the shredder during that announcement?

I believe questioning EVERYTHING is PATRIOTIC. Both a duty and a privilege GUARANTEED every American. Challenging one's patriotism, sexual orientation, or racial orientations is a gang-mentality tool.

Why not? It works for lynchings.

V[/c][/i]