My grandma is 90 and was talking about the times before vaccination for measles.

@OldBrit One problem I have is that yes I'm anti Covid vax and yes I'm anti flu vax but that's only because of how they are pushed. Flu vax is at least 'socially optional' and nobody cares if you get it or not. Covid vax was painted as 'socially mandatory' and every man and his dog apparently jumped on the bandwagon.

Also the way that Covid vaxes were 'fast tracked' without the same long-term case studies to check they were 'safe' and 'effective'. I never said they weren't good from a technical standpoint.

Other vaxes - the ones that have been properly proven to be safe and effective - I'm all in favour of. Just not Covid vax.

If someone deems that to make me an 'anti-vaxxer' (meaning against all vaxes) then that's not my problem, but it's like mis-gendering someone. I don't care because I made an unbiased decision based on assessing all the available evidence and chose to not get jabbed for Covid.

I anti-covid/flu vax, not anti-vax. But the Cult of Branch Covidian members are so blinkered they can't see the wood for the trees.

@zonavar68 @zonavar68

Personally I'm a bit of a "nazi" regarding vaccines. If you don't want them fine but I believe you forfit right to free treatment and should have restrictions placed on you.

I'd argue that the Covid were as well tested, actually better, than the annual flu vaccine. Also the rna ones proved in long term use to be safer then the conventional ones. That's why the Oxford / GSK vaccine is no longer produced, simply after several years without a doubt the rna ones have a safer profile.

Having worked in pharmaceutical R&D for 20 years of my career and then in an aligned area in research university I find the "they don't test" argument is based on heresay. If you saw the additional work required every round to get stuff approved you'd never doubt it.

BTW if I was to proposed Asprin, Paracetamol, Ibuprofen plus countless other over the counter drugs now I wouldn't get a licence to start human trials due to the safety profile you'd already know. It's a weird imho.

@zonavar68 All medicines have side effects, some of which are deadly. But if you don't want to have any medical treatment then don't get any. If you get the disease it may or may not kill you. If it does kill you then someone will benefit from your untimely death, which would be a good thing for that person. So, if you do get sick from a disease that vaccine could have prevented, enjoy your suffering.

@Diotrephes I didn't get the COVID vaccine as the log term side effects are still unknown, got COVID, was under the weather for 3 weeks, now how natural antibodies against it. It was my choice, my ex and best friends git the vaccine so we could travel. I took the risk of not getting the vaccination... Still went on vacation and got COVID a year later.... My choice that was right for me, and was fortunate as I didn't need to work outside the house, so could afford to stay home if I did get sick

@Kstrong I'm glad that it worked out for you but you could have infected other people and caused their deaths.

I've been fortunate and have had all of my vaccinations. Several weeks ago I had four different vaccinations at the same time = flu, Covid, RSV, and shingles. The next morning I got very nauseous but that is a side effect from each vaccine. And I've never gotten any of those diseases! So, it worked for me.

@Diotrephes I realise that, masked up and took precautions

@Diotrephes you did what was right for you.... As I did for myself