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SW-User
The Nazis were extinguished in Europe and rest of the world. Are they popular? What is a Nazi to you? Maybe they are being revived, but is it a bad thing? It is what happens when people go from extreme to extreme. Germany lost their minds and invited millions of foreigners into their country, and so did other European countries. These peoples have added to the crime rates and caused other issues. In US, the migrants add to the crime rates. People want to preserve what is theirs; they don't want other tribes coming in and doing wicked things to their fellow citizen. The non-whites don't want whites doing wicked things to them, and the whites don't want the non-whites doing wicked things to them. It is not wrong to want to protect your country and fight when it is happening on your soil. A colonizer is always a colonizer, regardless of color. Is white not a color anymore?
What whites should do is keep out of other countries, and deal with the issues in their country.
What whites should do is keep out of other countries, and deal with the issues in their country.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@SW-User
[Just as I had finished my reply, below:
The News headlines on the radios (BBC Radio Four) told us El Salvador is offering prison accommodation for American criminals; and to take in deported immigrants.]
To answer you:
The revival of Nazism would not be a "bad thing": it would be a horrifying disastaer. NO-ONE who thinks themselves at all civilised would want that. Try learning what the "National Socialists" really did in the ten or so years of their regime in the middle of the last century; to genuine inhabitants of their own country (Germany) and of the several they invaded. It had nothing to do with immigration; but all to do with race and culture.
In our times, race may be a primary factor to Americans, as you imply, but it is not important to most Europeans. Despite some hard-Right groups trying to turn race and culture into a problem.
In Europe now, the immigrants we are seeing were not "invited" in by Germany or anyone else; but most European nations have nearly always welcomed and sheltered those fleeing wars, persecution, abject poverty and natural disasters. They have also been happy to accept small numbers of immigrants simply wanting better lives. Also, many farmers in NW European countries, including Britain, employed workers who migrated back and forth by seasonal demand.
The real refugees never wanted to be such, but had no real choice for their own survival.
This was fine until really quite recently when life became so bad in large areas of Africa and the Middle East, and Afghanistan, that the numbers wanting to come to Europe increased drastically, and worse, readily became exploited by ruthless criminal "trafficking" gangs who do not even care how many die on the journey.
Most are still genuine refugees but there are also among them, so-called "economic migrants" from as near as Albania and as far as Vietnam. These fondly imagine the streets of European countries are paved with gold, but then find that is totally wrong. They cannot receive State benefits etc., find it very difficult to find decent employment and housing, and many end up exploited again by the so-called "black economy".
The result is a growing feeling of too many people too rapidly, increasing strains on housing and the public services with no satisfactory answer or workable action from the mainstream Parties. This is what the extreme political groups exploit for their own ends. Crime by the immigrants is probably no worse proportionally than by home-grown criminals, but this is also used to stir up disaffection.
So, Not the immigrants' races or cultures, though some extremists use those to reinforce their own xenophobia and as cheap excuses. The real difficulty is seen as their numbers, rates of immigration, and their needs.
[Just as I had finished my reply, below:
The News headlines on the radios (BBC Radio Four) told us El Salvador is offering prison accommodation for American criminals; and to take in deported immigrants.]
To answer you:
The revival of Nazism would not be a "bad thing": it would be a horrifying disastaer. NO-ONE who thinks themselves at all civilised would want that. Try learning what the "National Socialists" really did in the ten or so years of their regime in the middle of the last century; to genuine inhabitants of their own country (Germany) and of the several they invaded. It had nothing to do with immigration; but all to do with race and culture.
In our times, race may be a primary factor to Americans, as you imply, but it is not important to most Europeans. Despite some hard-Right groups trying to turn race and culture into a problem.
In Europe now, the immigrants we are seeing were not "invited" in by Germany or anyone else; but most European nations have nearly always welcomed and sheltered those fleeing wars, persecution, abject poverty and natural disasters. They have also been happy to accept small numbers of immigrants simply wanting better lives. Also, many farmers in NW European countries, including Britain, employed workers who migrated back and forth by seasonal demand.
The real refugees never wanted to be such, but had no real choice for their own survival.
This was fine until really quite recently when life became so bad in large areas of Africa and the Middle East, and Afghanistan, that the numbers wanting to come to Europe increased drastically, and worse, readily became exploited by ruthless criminal "trafficking" gangs who do not even care how many die on the journey.
Most are still genuine refugees but there are also among them, so-called "economic migrants" from as near as Albania and as far as Vietnam. These fondly imagine the streets of European countries are paved with gold, but then find that is totally wrong. They cannot receive State benefits etc., find it very difficult to find decent employment and housing, and many end up exploited again by the so-called "black economy".
The result is a growing feeling of too many people too rapidly, increasing strains on housing and the public services with no satisfactory answer or workable action from the mainstream Parties. This is what the extreme political groups exploit for their own ends. Crime by the immigrants is probably no worse proportionally than by home-grown criminals, but this is also used to stir up disaffection.
So, Not the immigrants' races or cultures, though some extremists use those to reinforce their own xenophobia and as cheap excuses. The real difficulty is seen as their numbers, rates of immigration, and their needs.
SW-User
@ArishMell What is your point? Immigration is always going to be a slippery slope. There are no half measures in this world. Can't you see this? Why do you waste all this time to admit immigrants cause problems? It is not about numbers, rates, or their needs. If you start thinking about their needs, you neglect the people. Unless the immigrant is going to embrace Europe and convert to Christianity, why are you bothering with them?
Have you met a Nazi? We have all met communists, liberals, people of different races, but have you met a Nazi? They were all put to death, or had to flee. Adolf Eichmann fled to Argentina, and the Israelis went there in a covert operation to bring him to Israel and put him to death. This was in the 1960s. The world took great exception to Nazism, in part due to jealousy. The Nazis were fantastical and out of this world.
Have you met a Nazi? We have all met communists, liberals, people of different races, but have you met a Nazi? They were all put to death, or had to flee. Adolf Eichmann fled to Argentina, and the Israelis went there in a covert operation to bring him to Israel and put him to death. This was in the 1960s. The world took great exception to Nazism, in part due to jealousy. The Nazis were fantastical and out of this world.
SW-User
@FreddieUK We are all uncivilized. Why do you think other races are more uncivilized than whites? Are you the racist? You are the one making this assumption.
Humans belong to tribes, and they always have. When another tribe does something bad to theirs, they become angry about it. It is very understandable when it happens in their nation, in their land. A black being mistreated by a white in Africa is right to be angry. A white being mistreated by an Asian or black in his nation is right to be angry. However, no one is mistreating them more than their governments. You see, the people pay the government, and they expect them to do the job. They pay them to keep them safe and ensure the smooth running of their nation. Do they pay them to get invaded by hostile peoples? It does not matter if the number is 1000, 100,000, or one million; more immigrants means more crime, and the fragmentation of society. It is the sucking of the blood of the country and its people. So much blood is sucked from them, they have nothing left. We should be proud of our countries and ought to seek to preserve our cultures and our way of life. The western societies have been eroded, with progressive liberalism being the cause. What good comes from progressive policies?
Humans belong to tribes, and they always have. When another tribe does something bad to theirs, they become angry about it. It is very understandable when it happens in their nation, in their land. A black being mistreated by a white in Africa is right to be angry. A white being mistreated by an Asian or black in his nation is right to be angry. However, no one is mistreating them more than their governments. You see, the people pay the government, and they expect them to do the job. They pay them to keep them safe and ensure the smooth running of their nation. Do they pay them to get invaded by hostile peoples? It does not matter if the number is 1000, 100,000, or one million; more immigrants means more crime, and the fragmentation of society. It is the sucking of the blood of the country and its people. So much blood is sucked from them, they have nothing left. We should be proud of our countries and ought to seek to preserve our cultures and our way of life. The western societies have been eroded, with progressive liberalism being the cause. What good comes from progressive policies?
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@SW-User @SW-User In turn, I don't understand your point. I was trying to explain why immigration is a (not the only, a) factor encouraging rising nationalist, rather isolationist tendencies in many European countries.
Since Europe is not a country but a polyglot assortment of over two dozen countries with their own cultures. economies, etc. the effects and reactions differ considerably across the continent; but one common fear is that the flow of immigrants is greater than each country can easily absorb.
It may be that the perceived problem is not the actual numbers of people overall, but the rate of their coming.
There will be more numbers of crimes, but not necessarily of proportion as population increases whether the increase of population is by immigration or all home-grown. Sure, if an immigrant commits a crime he or she should be dealt with by the law in the normal way, refused nationality and evicted from the country; but the majority of immigrants are not criminals.
I don't see any erosion of my country's way of life by immigrants. They tend to live still by their own cultures, but among and alongside the rest of us; and in most cases, without problems.
Nor are those people "hostile invaders". Unlile some countries I could name, by their governments not citizens.
I don't know your definition of "progessive liberalism", but this is mine:
Progressive - respects the culture, past etc but recognises and rejects past wrongs such as racism, mysogyny and empire-building.
Liberal - Treats people as equal human being in their own right, allowing them freedom and expression of thought, religion, political belief, culture, social interaction. Yes, that also means responsibility, but responsibility to respect others and not harm them.
Of course we should be proud of those aspects of our own countries that deserve praise, but pride in one's own country and culture does NOT mean hating other countries and cultures just for being foreign or having different ideas, or thinking ouselves superior to them, or refusing to help people in trouble.
A country is not merely an area of land. It is its people.
Since Europe is not a country but a polyglot assortment of over two dozen countries with their own cultures. economies, etc. the effects and reactions differ considerably across the continent; but one common fear is that the flow of immigrants is greater than each country can easily absorb.
It may be that the perceived problem is not the actual numbers of people overall, but the rate of their coming.
There will be more numbers of crimes, but not necessarily of proportion as population increases whether the increase of population is by immigration or all home-grown. Sure, if an immigrant commits a crime he or she should be dealt with by the law in the normal way, refused nationality and evicted from the country; but the majority of immigrants are not criminals.
I don't see any erosion of my country's way of life by immigrants. They tend to live still by their own cultures, but among and alongside the rest of us; and in most cases, without problems.
Nor are those people "hostile invaders". Unlile some countries I could name, by their governments not citizens.
I don't know your definition of "progessive liberalism", but this is mine:
Progressive - respects the culture, past etc but recognises and rejects past wrongs such as racism, mysogyny and empire-building.
Liberal - Treats people as equal human being in their own right, allowing them freedom and expression of thought, religion, political belief, culture, social interaction. Yes, that also means responsibility, but responsibility to respect others and not harm them.
Of course we should be proud of those aspects of our own countries that deserve praise, but pride in one's own country and culture does NOT mean hating other countries and cultures just for being foreign or having different ideas, or thinking ouselves superior to them, or refusing to help people in trouble.
A country is not merely an area of land. It is its people.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@SW-User That's irrelevant: you just don't like anyone who doesn't share whatever it is.
SW-User
@ArishMell We live in an age where definitions don't matter. They are irrelevant; they mean nothing. A progressive is into politics and just as likely to become fascist as the other groups. This is what poor education, having opinions, and preoccupation with the political world does to you. You think a progressive sounds good on paper, but paper is not reality.
FreddieUK · 70-79, M
@SW-User
In which case we might as well stop all discussion as we can use words to mean what ever we want and just change meanings when someone tries to challenge.
definitions don't matter
In which case we might as well stop all discussion as we can use words to mean what ever we want and just change meanings when someone tries to challenge.
SW-User
@FreddieUK Judaism? Yes, not many people share Judaism. Not many Jews become Catholic. Not many people want to use their brains and think about things.
I could not care less what culture people have, but I do care about governments mistreating us and taking us for a ride. It matters when people do not get what they pay for. It is time the employee government got fired by its citizens and immigrants who care about their hosts.
I could not care less what culture people have, but I do care about governments mistreating us and taking us for a ride. It matters when people do not get what they pay for. It is time the employee government got fired by its citizens and immigrants who care about their hosts.