We have given a lot of platitudes in the last 14 hours.

"Violence begets Violence"

"Violence only understands Violence"

"All lives are sacred"

"Tolerance cannot tolerate intolerance"

Etc

Trite statements that want to be profound when what takes place is a very complex, emotional and deeply entrenched situation. Again, like everything in life, there is no black and white. There is no "single" thing. There are nuances and conditionals.

Is violence the answer?

Sometimes, yes. Violence is the answer.

Sometimes no.

The Art of War is a very good guide on when violence should and shouldn't be used to prevent the biggest loss of life.

Sometimes the life of one can save hundreds. Sometimes the life of one ends up becoming the many headed hydra. If you aren't sure which will be the outcome, you need to reflect on the strategy.

Did yesterday's killing do anything?

Not really. I predict it will become the many headed hydra. In many ways, it already has. People have already said they would devote their time to spreading his messages.

The way I have seen things, we are already so deeply divided as a nation, we are beyond the brink of no return. We have hand wrung and tolerated actions that never should have been allowed to get so far. We are already perpetuating the worst horrors on others because we have already dehumanized our opponents. The right has dehumanized anyone who isn't just like them. The left has dehumanized the right. Both have the word "vermin" in their lexicon to refer to their enemy.

I read an article back in 2018 that said, "America isn't headed to civil war. It's been there for a while. Welcome to the decline of a nation!" And it was very true.

I don't know what to think about it all any more. I've pretty much gone numb to a lot of it. We have been headed down this road to the abattoir for at least a decade. Now its just a straight fall downward.

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ScreamingFox · 41-45, F

Yup. We've been headed in this direction for decades. I remember understanding when I was 12-13. I was 17 when 9/11 happened and there was some sort of American pride I felt, like we we were actually together, but it didn't last.

IMO, we started out this way. We built our system on stolen land. We murdered people we felt superior to from the beginning. Human nature is brutal, like most of nature is.

I've tried being the peace and kindness I believed in, and it eventually made me bitter. It actually took me down. I care about kids, animals and nature. But I'm done with the choices and prejudices of people who should know better. People who have lived and yet never learn anything beyond their own perception. It's an ignorance you can't fight. It's not about sides, it's not about fence sitting, it's about equality and like you've mentioned before, equity. Compromise and fair play. Something most people seem incapable of.

I've washed my hands of it. My only hope is to be kind and caring to future generations and the planet. Otherwise, I am going to be devalued by my peers, no matter what I say or do. And because the bullies win, there's no point in standing up to the system created by them. We argue here, there and everywhere. We shoot at and kill each other. That's our only move, the only one that speaks. The only way to create martyrs, "heroes" and vigilantes.

There are no sides worth adhering to, no leaders worth following and the fact we feel forced into any box just shows we are only slaves putting our dreams into a suggestion box.

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wishforthenight

@FoxyQueen

No. It will take too long.

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FoxyQueen · 51-55, F

@wishforthenight Okay. Then sources that I can read in my own to verify this, because from what I have learned and researched, this has been going on back in the 1890's, had a strong resurgence in thr Regan era and has finally found a foothold with trump and the tea party movement.

But I'm willing to admit all my resources over the last 10 years (actually a lot longer) but could be wrong.

NerdyPotato ·

Thank you for adding nuance. Reading this has been very insightful. The left may have better reasons to distance themselves from the right, but it indeed adds to the divide just as much. 😕

FoxyQueen · 51-55, F

@NerdyPotato They do. I mean, no one wants to be locked in a room with someone who directly shows signs they want you to die and they are willing to do it. That is sadly how the left sees the right, and they aren't wrong. It's hard to be inclusive to someone actively trying to kill you.

The right, in their xenophobic existence have been told for decades how they are the "real victims" and that just existing in the world, they are immediately persecuted. You see this from political rhetoric to being confirmed and positively reinforced in their churches. They fear being alone but instead of coming out of xenophobic spaces to be more inclusive, they create their own hell on earth. After a long enough time, that makes any person hateful, bitter and wanting to dominate the "others". They refuse to come out of the cave and see that what they have been force fed are lies and that everyone actually wants to be happy and live a good life.

Both sides definitely have their own self unrealized issues to overcome. Will they? Not at this time. There is too much garbage to get through at this point.

NerdyPotato ·

@FoxyQueen yep, I can see why the right is so afraid of the left with what information they consume. It's based on lies, but that doesn't make the fear any less real and any action less justified in their circumstances. And strong emotions tend to override logic, so presenting them with facts that the fear is unnecessary doesn't take it away. I don't know what we can do instead though, if anything.

FoxyQueen · 51-55, F

@NerdyPotato Sadly, they have to want to make the move to see if their views are founded. As long as they are surrounded by people who constantly affirm their feelings and beliefs, they have no reason to do so.

The same can be said of the left. Until the left just quits screeching, "They're in a cult!!!", "They are worshipping a false god!!!" or whatever screeds they are constantly saying reactionarily, they don't create an environment that is accepting of potentially showing the right that there are options. Screaming at someone that they are wrong is only going to make them dig in more because it proves the lies they have been fed.

There are ways to break through. Dr Steven Hassan has extensive training on how to help those who have been indoctrinated come back to reality. I admit, I don't have the patience or the skills to do this for either side. But I wish those who are would spend more time learning how to and then doing it.

But if wishes were ponies, I'd be broke buying hay.

robingoodfellow · M

Of all the write ups out there about the murder of Kirk- and it feels like millions of them- this is the most honest and the most real.
I'm numb to a lot of it too.

FoxyQueen · 51-55, F

@robingoodfellow Thank you

JimboSaturn · 56-60, M

I think it will only make the political divide more acute for America.

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