A Christian's perspective in Ukraine

@WintaTheAngle The pope can't defrock orthodox monks. They are two very separate churches. The only one who could defrock the monks in Kiev Caves is the Patriarch of Russia. That Patriarch's name is Kirill. A Russian form of Cyril.

@hippyjoe1955 You can see why the Patriarch of Russia might currently have a conflict of interest on the subject. As someone who has repeatedly said he distrusts Catholics you’d be aware of that.

@WintaTheAngle I am not orthodox in my belief either. I am anabaptist. If you think that closing churches or monasteries is a good thing because you perceive they might not be following the states rules then you are closer to Hitler than I care to imagine. Google Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

@hippyjoe1955 It’s safe to assume I’m not close to Hitler. But what happens on church and monastery grounds isn’t above the law, nor should it be.

@WintaTheAngle That is why Bonhoeffer was killed. He dared to stand up to the laws of the state. So if the state says that you can't practice your religion the religion must obey the state? Is that how you envision things working?

@hippyjoe1955 I’m not talking about Bonhoeffer, you are.

In my country Catholics were expelled because the placed the Popes decree higher than the nation’s. It’s quite possible that clerics who take their instructions from a Russian Patriarch could become an example of history repeating itself.

@WintaTheAngle Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it. Lets say the state enacts a law that says that you must report any red headed neighbors you have so the state can arrest them and exterminate them. The state has determined that red heads are genetically defective therefore..... Should you obey the law? It is the law after all. Should the church obey that law? It is the law after all. Bonhoeffer decided that as a Christian he could not follow the dictates of the Nazi state. So lets go back to the monastery in Kiev. What great evil have they committed that they must be disbanded? Were they amassing arms to use against the state? Were they aiding the enemy financially or otherwise? According to reports the only thing that was found was a few leaflets. So now it is illegal to have leaflets? But put that aside for the moment. Is such draconian measures 'democratic'? Is that the kind of nation we should be supporting with arms and wads of cash?

@hippyjoe1955 The clerics are accused of performing bogus rituals on members of the public. That’s cause to be removed

@WintaTheAngle And what bogus rituals do you think are worth shutting down a monastery over? Serious question? Maybe they offered communion and the Jewish Zelensky didn't like it? Maybe they performed the St John liturgy? What do ritual do you think they performed?

@WintaTheAngle BTW If you are referring to the monks that the pope defrocked you are talking about something entirely different than what I am talking about. The pope defrocked some catholic monks for doing exorcisms. The orthodox monastery is being shut down because Zelensky thinks they have Russian sympathies. HUGE difference.

@hippyjoe1955 According go their victims they excused them of being possessed by demons and then performed false exorcisms, which according to local police were abusive in nature. But because this had all happened against the back drop of a war people are ignoring the reason why these priests are in trouble in the first place.

@WintaTheAngle Please get your story straight. You are talking about Roman Catholic monks and not Russian Orthodox monk nor Ukrainian Orthodox monks. This has nothing to do with closing the Kieve Caves Monastery.

@hippyjoe1955 The statement I read said I was people from that monastery who were investigated by the police.

@WintaTheAngle The monks defrocked by the pope are Roman Catholic. The monks the Ukrainian state (police) are after are Russian Orthodox. The two are not related and the police investigation is little more than religious persecution. There is no evidence that the monks in the Kiev Caves were engaged in political activities. There is huge evidence that Ukraine is persecuting ethnic Russians in Ukraine.