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War With Iran

Yesterday, the US and Israel launched a joint attack on Iran, killing Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamanei. This has been reported by both Israeli and Iranian news sources, so it's probably accurate as it's unlikely that both of them would be lying.

The Iranian regime has brutally oppressed its own people and has supported terrorist groups around the globe. That doesn't justify this attack although strategically the regime is the weakest it's been since 1979 and If there was going to be an attack, now was the time to do it.

The reasons given for the attack have been, to put it mildly, incoherent. In Israel's case, the reasons are clearer as Iran and Israel have essentially been engaged in a low-level war for decades, so this is just an escalation. On the US side, Trump missed a golden opportunity at his State of the Union speech last week to present the administration's case, yet he barely mentioned Iran even though plans for the war must have been well underway by then, and with the movement of battle groups toward Iran, the US' intentions were already obvious.

So we're left with vague pronouncements, which include neutralizing Iran's nuclear capabilities (didn't we do that last year?), stopping a major sponsor of terrorism (but why now and not any time since 1979?), and regime change to help the Iranian people after as many as 50,000 of them were slaughtered last month by their own government ("help is on the way"). The US doesn't have a great history of success with this latter goal. In Iran itself, the CIA overthrew the Mosaddegh government in 1953 and replaced it with the Shah, who was himself overthrown 25 years later and replaced with the current government. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein gave us ISIS, and getting rid of the Taliban gave us...the Taliban. There's no indication that there has been any preparation for who will run Iran if the mullahs are removed.

That in itself isn't a given. There is no "vice-Ayatollah" or anyone specifically designated to take over after Khamanei's death. The next Supreme Leader is chosen by the Assembly of Experts. Think of this as the board of directors of a company choosing the next CEO. The day-to-day government operations are overseen by the (nominally) popularly-elected President, currently Masoud Pezeshkian. If anything happens to Pezeshkian, his vice-president, Mohammed Reza Aref would take over. Similar to what happened in Venezuela when Maduro was removed (or kidnapped, depending on your opinion), government operations would continue with little change.

While it's not clear who will replace Khamanei, reportedly he was preparing one of his allies, Ali Larijani, to take over. Other possible replacements include Mohammed Mohammadi Golpayegani, head of the Supreme Leader's office; Mojtaba Khamanei, Ali Khamanei's son; and several others like Vahid Haghanian and Asghar Hejazi who hold leadership and policy positions. If the entire higher leadership is taken out or neutralized, the likeliest outcome is that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) would take over in what would amount to rule by military junta.

The IRGC was established as a counterweight to the Iranian military, an ultra-nationalist organization intended to prevent a coup by military leaders. While the IRGC has been heavily involved in overseas operations, its main purpose is to protect the regime from its own military, and as we've seen over the past few months, it also suppresses any domestic opposition. You can think of the IRGC as a combination of the NSA, the CIA, and the Secret Service on steroids.

Reza Pahlavi, the son of the former Shah, is popular in the Iranian diaspora community, but has little meaningful support in Iran itself (protesters chanting "Javid Shah" (long live the Shah) don't count as "meaningful"). The regime has been very effective in crushing any popular opposition to it, to the point where there are no domestic leaders with the organization and resources to fill the gap if the government is removed. If the plan is to bring Mr. Pahlavi in with the expectation that he will be able to take over, this is unrealistic and doomed to failure.

The war is also extremely unpopular on both the left and the right in the US; its sole supporters appear to be the MAGA faithful who will support Trump no matter what he does, Iranian expats, and some Israel supporters. The opposition appears to be limited to complaining online, however. I'm old enough to have participated in the demonstrations prior to the outbreak of George W. Bush's Iraq War, the largest anti-war protests in US history that took place before a war started. So far, I haven't seen any protests at all against the current war. Part of this may be the speed at which everything has happened, as the lead-up to the Iraq War took well over a year. People might also be exhausted as there's only so much protesting they can do, what with No Kings, Israel/Gaza, and ICE. This is just the latest in a long line of outrages by the current administration. I haven't seen any protests over the Epstein Files either, and more people are probably more upset about those as pedophilia may be the one thing everyone agrees is bad.

Based on the war's unpopularity and the complete lack of even short-term planning, I'm predicting that, like the Venezuela action (and the 12-Day War in Iran last year), the current action will not continue for much longer, and regardless of the outcome, the administration will simply declare victory as they did in the previous actions, and go home. Trump has been described as an incurious man who is incapable of learning from his mistakes, but he has apparently learned from the failures of US military adventures since World War Two that prolonged wars are generally unsuccessful while short strikes at least avoid getting stuck in a quagmire and are quickly forgotten. Whether the current war is "successful" or not will, like everything else, depend on your opinion.
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diablo · 51-55, M
Just a quick comment: This post is why SW is indeed *so critical* to the social media landscape (for lack of a better phrase).

There are only a handful of social media communities where a post and comments this nuanced and intelligent on current world events can transpire.
So, bravo, my fellow SWeeps!!! Bravo!!! 👏👏👏👏
JohnnySpot · 56-60, M
@LeopoldBloom People are .....in a long late line of outrage..... but what he's doing is not an outrage.
He warned them to stop trying to make nuclear bombs....
Would the people who object like Iran to have nuclear bombs?
Sincerely,
@JohnnySpot
@JohnnySpot The JCPOA would have prevented Iran from getting nukes, and Trump trashed it, so Iran was closer to getting nukes thanks to him. If nothing else, this war will at least set back their nuclear program.
JohnnySpot · 56-60, M
@LeopoldBloom The JCPOA looks good on paper but it didn't stop Iran from continuing trying to make nuclear bombs.
Who wants Iran to have nuclear bombs?
Do the younger generations of the Iranian people want a nuclear bomb?
Northwest · M
Here's an X post from the guy who was in charge of negotiations:

https://x.com/gothburz/status/2027852172923154714?s=48&t=IqiMmlul4MoSUf6eL1gciw

It's really a must read.

I disagree that Shah Jr. has the support of the Iranian Diaspora. His PR machine, joined by Netanyahu's PR machine, are creating that illusions, but the secular, progressive, Iranian Diaspora doesn't want the son of the guy who killed, tortured and imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Iranians, to be in charge.

Shah Jr. presents himself as a good choice to lead the country, while democracy is established. Whatever that means.

What Trump wants is to put his fossil fuel donors, and his family in charge of the world's second largest natural gas an oil reserves. What the CIA and MI6 did in 1953.

However, the likelihood of this turning into another civil war, Syria style, is pretty high. Israel is not going to have boots on the ground, and we won't either. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, Saudi, may start participating in air raids, but they will not have boots on the ground either.

The selfish in me is thrilled the Ayatollahs who managed the groups established for the sole purpose of eliminating Jews, are now balls deep into their 72 virgins, but I am not thrilled this also means Netanyahu is Prime Minster for life, and the hillbillies of Israel are in charge forever.

So, yes, just like we did in the case of Syria, we will watch this from a distance, and "feel" for the people of Iran, and then go about our distractions.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Northwest A terrible state of affairs, and there is no real likelihood the Iranian regime will be toppled from within or without. It will likely have planned for situations like this, and opposition to it is not at all clear-cut.

Besides, just who can take over? Is there an organised, coherent opposition capable of running the country, and who won't be another target for Israel and America in turn?

At worst, a civil war ripe for exploiting by bandits like ISIS, or Russia and China, but whatever happens it will be the unfortunate Iranian population who suffers the worst.
@Northwest Most of the Iranian diaspora, at least in the US, are people who were doing pretty well under the Shah, and left in 1979. So they may be more genially disposed toward Pahlavi than you might think. However, that doesn't translate to support within Iran, although for younger people who didn't live through the Shah's reign, maybe Pahlavi sounds like an improvement over what they've had up to now.

I'd read that we were getting some very good concessions from the Iranians. I was hoping that the strategy of talking while positioning warships would get the desired results without our having to fire a shot - sort of a version of the mobster pointing a gun at a bandleader and telling him either his brains or his signature would be on the contract. Maybe Trump would come across as crazy enough to actually attack them, and that would be motivation enough. Apparently I was wrong.
Northwest · M
@LeopoldBloom

I was hoping that the strategy of talking while positioning warships would get the desired results without our having to fire a shot - sort of a version of the mobster pointing a gun at a bandleader and telling him either his brains or his signature would be on the contract. Maybe Trump would come across as crazy enough to actually attack them, and that would be motivation enough. Apparently I was wrong.

https://similarworlds.com/politics/5521207-It-Was-Within-Our-Reach-gothburz-status-2027852172923154714
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@LeopoldBloom No you are writing propaganda as always.

Mossadeh was killed because he wanted to work for the people of Iran not American and British oil oligarchs.

You are only honest about the Shah now that you have been called out since his son is the favorite of you Zionists.

And you deliberately missed the point about Libya.
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@LeopoldBloom Very deliberate lies by omission are still lies.


And so what? You want to cheerlead a war you should educate yourself.


Fun fact. Near the end the CIA even backed the Ayatollahs during the internal fighting because religious extremists were better than "commies" to their thinking. The same way we got Al Qaeda.


No I am against American imperialism and wars started over 3000 year old storybooks. And unlike you are don't support a genocidal apartheid state.



It absolutely is. You are deliberately ignoring all facts that don't support your narrative as always.

The strikes are very very obviously designed with the intention of killing anyone capable of governing and just turning the entire region into chaos.

This is why even moderates with support in the west are getting bombs dropped on their heads.
Ohplease47 · F
If I said karma should be working on this one....

Would people think Im irresponsible??????
swirlie · 31-35
Four attempted regime changes that I can think of off the top of my head that the US has tried to make but failed, include Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela and now Iran.

The one thing the US continuously proves to the world is that Americans are no good at winning any wars that they start. Of those wars that some other nation starts but the US then goes in to finish off the job, the US only has a 61% success rate at winning wars on behalf of some other country who started it but couldn't finish the job.

Of all the wars the US has started itself over the last 214 years, the US has LOST 100% of those wars. Those include attempted regime changes.

So far over the past 50 years, the US has tried but failed miserably at every regime change it tried to force onto some foreign government that didn't walk, talk and look like an American and Iran will be no different. The reason the US wants to change a regime in the first place is to force a Nation to think more in line with so-called 'western cultural values'.

It's not that the US doesn't have the hardware and technology to successfully win wars and make regime changes happen, it's because the US mentality is not one of strategic thinking. The US military sucks at jungle warfare and it also sucks at mountain warfare, with Vietnam and Afghanistan coming to mind respectively.

A distinct lack of strategic thinking is also the reason why the USA is $38 Trillion in debt with no hope of recovery from that National Debt over the next projected 200 years.

What we're talking about here is a failed western Nation who's attempting to make all eastern Nations become just like the USA in cultural thinking and values. Who but an American would think that would work?
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Darksideinthenight2 President Trump may be successful, perhaps, in what though?

Iran is not run by idiots, but by clever, cold, cruel, calculating men who know that leaders are not immortal, whether dying naturally or by some foreigner's high-explosives. They also have the luxury of not needing consult their citizens by elections that risk zig-zagging ideologies every few years; so are able to look a long way ahead.

So they will have planned for the continuity of their system within Iran - just as China's, Saudi Arabia's and North Korea's leaders have in their own countries, for the same basic reasons.

The present Iranian regime is not universally hated in its own country, much of the opposition is on ecomic not democratic grounds; and the government will have ensured there is no single, coherent, cohesive, effective opposition capable of taking over and running the country as a peaceful, going concern.

Even if there was, there is no guarantee it would be pro-USA or friendly towards Israel.

''''' '''''
(I do not know if Russia has made any equivalent succession-plans, but that seems run only by and for one man, not an ideology and system, so what will happen after his death is anyone's guess. Putin won't be around to care.)
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@Darksideinthenight2 As soon as rising gas prices at home spook his core vote (most oil shipments to China from Iran have now effectively ceased) he will panic and flee.
So much for keeping us out of foreign wars.
And so much for him not sending young men (and women) to their deaths. Purely for his ego, because his children certainly won’t be going. 😞
SunshineGirl · 36-40, F
@AwesomusPrime 201 Iranians killed and 747 injured by American-Israeli air strikes according to the Red Cross.
@bijouxbroussard Trump has already lost the antisemitic extreme right (Carlson, Fuentes, Owens) who, like their left-wing counterparts, think the Jews, excuse me, Israel owns the US. Congress is back in session on Monday, and if the Republicans' phones lit up over the weekend with enough conservatives complaining about this, I don't expect the war to continue for much longer as they may find their spines and actually rein in the administration. This is ideal for Trump as he will then be able to blame RINOs and Democrats for whatever happens in Iran because they stopped him before he could finish the job.
@SunshineGirl That's a suspiciously low number. Either that, or the strikes were remarkably precise. I expect that we knew exactly where everyone was.
Typical .

It is an unprovoked war of aggression and a war crime period.

None of the victim blaming B's.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
We will get to witness The Islamic Reformation in real time.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow you should teach theological history
@AthrillatheHunt Theology is not so much the issue. It is people thinking they should shoot anyone who disagrees with them that is the problem.
AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I was being sarcastic .
xbandoleerx · 61-69, M
Nearly all scandals are followed by conflicts & wars to push the scandals under a heavier crises.
There is no HR thing. It is just an eyewash or excuse
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