Persephonee · 26-30, F
A lot of guff has been written in other answers, particularly the one suggesting that Catholicism isn't somehow Christian. In the most ecumenical spirit possible, that's bollocks.
You are right @dexterrr22 forgiveness should exist between a man and his creator, and it does. But confession doesn't ignore this, it actually helps us really understand what this means.
The best way to explain confession - of talking to a priest to be 'forgiven' is to leave the priest aside for a minute and look at the relationship between individuals, the community, and God.
The point of confession is that there is a difference between private remorse, and being restored to the community around you. (If you commit a crime, even if you a really sorry about it you still might go to prison, though if you are genuinely sorry it's likely for less time).
In Christianity (not just Catholicism), and as far as I know in Islam too, sin isn't just "breaking a rule", but damaging your relationship with God. But sin *also* damages your relationship with other people and the community around you.
In committing a sin we hurt God, and ourselves, but also our friends and family (even if they don't know the details). Therefore it makes sense that to heal that wound - to remove the sin properly - we don't just want to say sorry to God (though that's important) but also to those around us. A Christian can (and should!!!) pray directly to God, express sorrow, and ask forgiveness. The point of confessing to a priest is that it's a way to say sorry to those around us, but also be reminded that God has forgiven us. (If we feel very guilty, sometimes it can be hard to remember that).
Catholics recognise a key element of Jesus' ministry was entrusting the apostles (the first Church leaders) with the power to act in his name in some circumstances
and we understand this to mean that this creates for priests a 'ministry' (official spiritual function) of helping this forgiveness happen. It isn't just matter of announcing that God forgives but of helping a sinner truly feel forgiven.
In the early church, if someone committed a sin they had to confess it publicly in front of everyone in their church (and you'd also get quite significant spiritual punishments, e.g. not receiving the Eucharist - being denied full participation in Christian worship - for potentially several years). Over time, because lots of people feel a benefit from confessing small things and because the Church grew quickly, this developed into the same idea, but done privately, just between the sinner, and the priest acting on behalf of the Church community.
In confession priest doesn't do the forgiving: he speaks on behalf of God (so we actually hear words of forgiveness ourselves), and also on behalf of our community (the Church). He will at some point say:
And that word 'absolve' isn't the priest doing the forgiving (he's just said God is the one who forgives), but of saying that you are restored to the church community as well. It's reassurance and blessing all at the same time, really.
I hope this helps
You are right @dexterrr22 forgiveness should exist between a man and his creator, and it does. But confession doesn't ignore this, it actually helps us really understand what this means.
The best way to explain confession - of talking to a priest to be 'forgiven' is to leave the priest aside for a minute and look at the relationship between individuals, the community, and God.
The point of confession is that there is a difference between private remorse, and being restored to the community around you. (If you commit a crime, even if you a really sorry about it you still might go to prison, though if you are genuinely sorry it's likely for less time).
In Christianity (not just Catholicism), and as far as I know in Islam too, sin isn't just "breaking a rule", but damaging your relationship with God. But sin *also* damages your relationship with other people and the community around you.
In committing a sin we hurt God, and ourselves, but also our friends and family (even if they don't know the details). Therefore it makes sense that to heal that wound - to remove the sin properly - we don't just want to say sorry to God (though that's important) but also to those around us. A Christian can (and should!!!) pray directly to God, express sorrow, and ask forgiveness. The point of confessing to a priest is that it's a way to say sorry to those around us, but also be reminded that God has forgiven us. (If we feel very guilty, sometimes it can be hard to remember that).
Catholics recognise a key element of Jesus' ministry was entrusting the apostles (the first Church leaders) with the power to act in his name in some circumstances
Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.
and we understand this to mean that this creates for priests a 'ministry' (official spiritual function) of helping this forgiveness happen. It isn't just matter of announcing that God forgives but of helping a sinner truly feel forgiven.
In the early church, if someone committed a sin they had to confess it publicly in front of everyone in their church (and you'd also get quite significant spiritual punishments, e.g. not receiving the Eucharist - being denied full participation in Christian worship - for potentially several years). Over time, because lots of people feel a benefit from confessing small things and because the Church grew quickly, this developed into the same idea, but done privately, just between the sinner, and the priest acting on behalf of the Church community.
In confession priest doesn't do the forgiving: he speaks on behalf of God (so we actually hear words of forgiveness ourselves), and also on behalf of our community (the Church). He will at some point say:
God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
And that word 'absolve' isn't the priest doing the forgiving (he's just said God is the one who forgives), but of saying that you are restored to the church community as well. It's reassurance and blessing all at the same time, really.
I hope this helps
dexterrr22 · 22-25, M
@Persephonee i don't agree with hurting god by doing a sin, in islam it's more like crossing the line . because you can't hurt god,
Persephonee · 26-30, F
@dexterrr22 ok by hurt i meant more like "upset"
We can't injure God i agree, but we can insult him, or inply by our actions we don’t want a relationship with him.
We can't injure God i agree, but we can insult him, or inply by our actions we don’t want a relationship with him.
dexterrr22 · 22-25, M
@Persephonee yess i agree, and also we insult him when we say that he have a son and a wife ! it's weird why a god will need such a human thing like a wife and a son
TrumanTheTrueman · 36-40, M
That's not Biblical Christianity, that's Roman Catholicism, which is really just Babylonian paganism mixed into "Christianity", as Alexander Hislop proved in his book "The two Babylons".
There is only one Person Who can forgive your sin. There is only one Person Who paid for your sin. There is only one Person Who is your Mediator, and there is only one Person Who can give you eternal life. That Person is the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It's his blood that cleanesth us from all sins (1 John 1:7).
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31).
In the book of Acts 4:12, the declaration of the early disciples - "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
No name but Jesus Christ. If you don't know Him yet, this is an incredible invitation that "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
If you don't know Him, you can call on the name of Jesus Christ who died, was buried and rose from the dead and lives right now and who is God in human flesh and who loves you and wants you. Listen, He lives and has been knocking at the door of your heart.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1st John 5:13)
I will prove to you right now that the Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian
Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.
For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisoned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)
Before we get to specific problems with Catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycliffe translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the Catholic religion dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic religion so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other martyrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons.
I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).
Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.
1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.
Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).
One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.
NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.
Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.
I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?
The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.
1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.
I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];
I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic religion which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).
* * * *
The Catholic religion has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of Roman Catholicism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts: (1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound (2) there's no such thing as purgatory and (3) the gift of God is without price.
Roman Catholicism today is probably the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not some religious organization. Prayerfully.
There is only one Person Who can forgive your sin. There is only one Person Who paid for your sin. There is only one Person Who is your Mediator, and there is only one Person Who can give you eternal life. That Person is the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It's his blood that cleanesth us from all sins (1 John 1:7).
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31).
In the book of Acts 4:12, the declaration of the early disciples - "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
No name but Jesus Christ. If you don't know Him yet, this is an incredible invitation that "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
If you don't know Him, you can call on the name of Jesus Christ who died, was buried and rose from the dead and lives right now and who is God in human flesh and who loves you and wants you. Listen, He lives and has been knocking at the door of your heart.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1st John 5:13)
I will prove to you right now that the Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian
Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.
For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisoned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)
Before we get to specific problems with Catholic doctrine, let's review how this bloodthirsty organization treated a man who simply wanted to get the Bible into the hands of the common people. In the late 1300s John Wycliffe translated the scriptures from the Latin Vulgate. Some 40 odd years after his death, the Catholic religion dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick. In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic religion so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536. It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope. Time fails me here to tell of other martyrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons.
I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).
Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to.
1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.
Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).
One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close.
NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.
Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.
I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?
The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.
1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.
I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];
I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *
There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. There are also many other doctrines of the catholic religion which could have been refuted (e.g. the sacraments, receiving the Holy Ghost, salvation through the catholic religion, penance, rosary, etc.).
* * * *
The Catholic religion has a history of taking the money of poor widows in order to say masses for the dead (which do no good) and collecting the material possessions of nuns. In Italy, the heart of Roman Catholicism, there is an often used saying that goes, "Without money, they don't sing the mass." That is really pitiful on several fronts: (1) mass is blasphemous and people who trust in it are hell-bound (2) there's no such thing as purgatory and (3) the gift of God is without price.
Roman Catholicism today is probably the wealthiest government in the world. It owns a good share of America's hospitals and has healthy real estate interests. The bottom line is, if you want to get right with God, you have to go through His Son, Jesus Christ, not some religious organization. Prayerfully.
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dexterrr22 · 22-25, M
@TrumanTheTrueman okay, let's say i'm atheist, and i want to convert to some religion, when i will see that your "god" the greatest one in the universe, go to the toilet like us, i will never ever worship him
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Persephonee · 26-30, F
@TrumanTheTrueman Few Catholics will read this because oh-my-goodness that is a lot of text, even by my standards! Try starting a conversation/comment thread and set this out over a few posts!
TrumanTheTrueman · 36-40, M
@Persephonee I deleted my comment before I saw your comment. The reason why I deleted it is because I had to add some things to it, which I did and reposted.
ImperialAerosolKidFromEP · 51-55, M
dexterrr22 · 22-25, M
@exexec i'am a muslim
th3r0n · 41-45, M
@Persephonee the Bible is the Torah (old testament) kept by the Jews and the letters to the churches from the disciples
Persephonee · 26-30, F
@th3r0n Well sure but there are more letters of that era than the ones in the Bible. Who decided that II Corinthians was canonical but the epistles of Clement weren't? Why was the Revelation of St John included but not all the other quite similar apocalyptic texts written at the same time on a similar subject?
(The answer, of course, is the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, which in that age as now was certainly Catholic).
(The answer, of course, is the Church guided by the Holy Spirit, which in that age as now was certainly Catholic).
th3r0n · 41-45, M
@Persephonee who wrote it had a lot to do with that
Persephonee · 26-30, F
@gregloa aka the OG Christianity...
Adstar · 56-60, M
That's only part of the catholic religion..
We Christians are not purified by other human beings ( priests ) we are purified by the Atonement of The LORD Jesus.. We are however encouraged to confess our sins to one another so that others can pray for us, thus increasing our ability to resist the sin that we are having troubles with.. But again this does not purify our sin.. Only our trust in the Work of Jesus on the cross does that..
We Christians are not purified by other human beings ( priests ) we are purified by the Atonement of The LORD Jesus.. We are however encouraged to confess our sins to one another so that others can pray for us, thus increasing our ability to resist the sin that we are having troubles with.. But again this does not purify our sin.. Only our trust in the Work of Jesus on the cross does that..
BohoBabe · M
That's Catholicism. In Protestantism, there's no middleman. But there's also no god so, IDK, maybe confess to me.
nobodyishome · 31-35, F
Heyy stop that
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CactusJackManson · 51-55, M
Lostpoet · M
Who says you can't ?
BlueSkyKing · M
It’s call deism.
They hold that the universe operates according to fixed natural laws that the creator established at the moment of creation. Once those laws were set in motion, the creator withdrew. There is no ongoing intervention, no miraculous revelation, and no divinely inspired scripture.
They hold that the universe operates according to fixed natural laws that the creator established at the moment of creation. Once those laws were set in motion, the creator withdrew. There is no ongoing intervention, no miraculous revelation, and no divinely inspired scripture.
BlueSkyKing · M
@th3r0n Which people?
th3r0n · 41-45, M
BlueSkyKing · M
@th3r0n From Wikipedia:
The Sadducees rejected the Oral Torah as proposed by the Pharisees. Rather, they saw the Written Torah as the sole source of divine authority. Later writings of the Pharisees criticized this belief as one that strengthened the Sadducees' own power.
According to Josephus, the Sadducees' beliefs included:
Rejection of the idea of fate or of a pre-ordained future.
God does not commit or even think evil.
Man has free will; "man has the free choice of good or evil".
The soul is not immortal and there is no afterlife, and no rewards or penalties after death.
It is a virtue to debate and dispute with philosophy-teachers.
The Sadducees did not accept the idea of resurrection of the dead, but believed (contrary to the claim of Josephus) in the traditional Jewish concept of Sheol for those who had died. Josephus also includes a claim that the Sadducees are rude compared to loving and compassionate Pharisees, but this is generally considered more of a sectarian insult rather than an unbiased judgment of the Sadducees on their own terms. Similarly, Josephus brags that the Sadducees were often forced to back down if their judgments clashed with the Pharisees, as he says that the Pharisees were more popular with the multitude
The Sadducees rejected the Oral Torah as proposed by the Pharisees. Rather, they saw the Written Torah as the sole source of divine authority. Later writings of the Pharisees criticized this belief as one that strengthened the Sadducees' own power.
According to Josephus, the Sadducees' beliefs included:
Rejection of the idea of fate or of a pre-ordained future.
God does not commit or even think evil.
Man has free will; "man has the free choice of good or evil".
The soul is not immortal and there is no afterlife, and no rewards or penalties after death.
It is a virtue to debate and dispute with philosophy-teachers.
The Sadducees did not accept the idea of resurrection of the dead, but believed (contrary to the claim of Josephus) in the traditional Jewish concept of Sheol for those who had died. Josephus also includes a claim that the Sadducees are rude compared to loving and compassionate Pharisees, but this is generally considered more of a sectarian insult rather than an unbiased judgment of the Sadducees on their own terms. Similarly, Josephus brags that the Sadducees were often forced to back down if their judgments clashed with the Pharisees, as he says that the Pharisees were more popular with the multitude
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
No.
Confession is like going to a spiritual physician.
You can alwaya pray or attend Mass.
Confession is like going to a spiritual physician.
You can alwaya pray or attend Mass.