Genesis 6: The sons of God and the Nephilim
Just did a lengthy study on this. Iron sharpens iron. What is the your viewpoint and what is the evidence of your claims?
Charity · 61-69
And I'm adding my other belief to your post when you speak of iron sharpens irons, concerning the header topic Nephiliums.
Daniel 2:43 tells us that they will mingle themselves with the seed of man, and it tells us that iron and clay don't mix. The "they" are heavenly beings mixing their DNA with the DNA (seed)of man, isn't the woman's egg is considered a seed and the male sperm is considered a seed. Which also refers to Matthew 24:38 when it says they will be eating and drinking and Marion and giving it to marriage like it was in the days of Noah.
The iron is the angels and the clay is man, man is made from dirt / from clays the angels will who knows but not of the elements of the Earth.
Matthew 24:38 KJV - For as in the days that were before the - Bible Gateway https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024%3A38&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%202%3A43-45&version=KJV
Most of Christian pastors teach that they are referring to people which doesn't make any sense. People mingling themselves with the seed of man!!! And it's natural for people to eat to drink to marry and to be given into marriage in respect ordained by God to do so.
And when you hear educated, good sense, people with good reputations speak of abduction and those who are doing the abducting or taking their DNA and creating alien / human hybrids all you have to do is look into the Bible and see that people thousands of years ago wrote of the same thing.
Abductions I have to touch on that - Enoch and Elijah were taken from the Earth what would be called in these modern days alien abduction.
Whether you believe in scripture or not that's your concern, yet I asked how can one ignore what is written in the Bible and what is going on in these modern days that is prophesied to occur.
Thanks for the conversation!
Daniel 2:43 tells us that they will mingle themselves with the seed of man, and it tells us that iron and clay don't mix. The "they" are heavenly beings mixing their DNA with the DNA (seed)of man, isn't the woman's egg is considered a seed and the male sperm is considered a seed. Which also refers to Matthew 24:38 when it says they will be eating and drinking and Marion and giving it to marriage like it was in the days of Noah.
The iron is the angels and the clay is man, man is made from dirt / from clays the angels will who knows but not of the elements of the Earth.
Matthew 24:38 KJV - For as in the days that were before the - Bible Gateway https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024%3A38&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%202%3A43-45&version=KJV
Most of Christian pastors teach that they are referring to people which doesn't make any sense. People mingling themselves with the seed of man!!! And it's natural for people to eat to drink to marry and to be given into marriage in respect ordained by God to do so.
And when you hear educated, good sense, people with good reputations speak of abduction and those who are doing the abducting or taking their DNA and creating alien / human hybrids all you have to do is look into the Bible and see that people thousands of years ago wrote of the same thing.
Abductions I have to touch on that - Enoch and Elijah were taken from the Earth what would be called in these modern days alien abduction.
Whether you believe in scripture or not that's your concern, yet I asked how can one ignore what is written in the Bible and what is going on in these modern days that is prophesied to occur.
Thanks for the conversation!
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
Let me pose this and get some feedback. I will only be referring to the "sons of God" in this message.
The identification of the "sons of God," depending on context will either be human or angel.
The proof-text passage for the "sons of God" in (Gen.6:2,4) as angels comes from (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). The argument is, because the sons of God are identified as angels in Job based on context, then the sons of God in Genesis are also angels. One of the obvious problems with this interpretive method is taking the words and context in Job and inserting it into Genesis. Why is this a problem?
The phrase "sons of God" in majority usage doesn't refer to angels, but to believers (Ps.82:6/ Mal.2:10/ Lk.20:36/ Jn.1:12/ Rom.8:14-23/ Phil.2:15/ Gal.3:26/ Heb.2:10; 12:7/ 1 Jn.3:1-2); There's just not enough context in Genesis 6 to substantiate a definitive angelic interpretation
Genesis—Deuteronomy (written by Moses) always designates "sons of God" to the nation of Israel (Ex.4:22-23/ Deut.14:1; 32:5-6, 18-20.... see also Ps.73:15; 80:15/ Is.43:6/ Hos.1:10; 2:1; 11:1)
When Moses uses the word "angel" it's the Hebrew word "mal'ak" which is used 40x's in the Penteteuch, with around 15-20x's in Genesis depending on translation; the very first occurrence is found in (Gen.16:7) where it refers to a Theophany. Each reference when it refers to angels always calls them angels, not sons of God. The author of Job was aware of the term "angel" (mal'ak) in (Job 4:18).
Why would Moses use the phrase "sons of God" to refer to angels in (Genesis 6) when everywhere else he uses the term "angels" if he had spiritual beings in view?
If you carefully read (Gen.6-9) you'll consistently find the terms "he, his, flesh, man" but not once do we find any address, fault, nor judgment to any angles or angel-hybrid offspring; keep in mind when Adam/Eve sinned in the Garden, everyone involved was addressed, that includes the spiritual power behind the serpent, so it would only make sense if angels breeding with women was the cause for the flood, then the angels should also have been mentioned here in Genesis.
We know the sons of God are angels in Job, not because of the phrase itself, but because of the context.
The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew phrase "bene ha Elohim" (only found exactly in Gen.6:2, 4/ Job 1:6; 2:1) is "huioi tou Theou" which is the plural form; in (Rom.8:19), the singular form "huion tou Theou" is used of believers in Christ
The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew phrase "bene elim/Elohim" which is found in (Job 38:7/ Ps.29:1; 89:6) is "huioi Theou" plural while (Ps.89:6) is singular referring to angels....which is also found in (Mt.5:9/ Gal.3:26) describing believers in Christ. (Mt 5:9) Is especially of interest since the application of the term "sons of God" to humans is made prior to the coming of the SPIRIT and regeneration of truly born-again believers.
In (Job 38:7), the definite article is dropped. In (Hos.1:10) it's Bene El Chay and in (Ps.82:6) is Bene Elyon. So, the sons of God, sons of the Living God, and sons of the Most High God are all synonyms; all same difference with different phrases. We have the same examples with (Num.6:32) "bene Yisrael," (2 Kn.17:20) "zera Yisrael," and (Ex.16:31) "beyth Yisrael"; all three being synonyms. They are just different ways to say the same thing. So, "sons of God" is not an exclusive reference to angelic beings.
One rebuttal is that the Septuagint (LXX) in (Gen.6:2, 4/ Job 1:6; 2:1) uses the phrase "angels of God" and "My angels" in (Job 38:7) and the problem with this is that it's an interpretive translation based of the translators understanding, not an actual translation from the Hebrew into Greek
In the N.T. (e.g. Mt.5:9/ Rom.8:14/ Gal.5:26), if you take "sons of God" in Greek and translate it back into Hebrew, it actually translates back to what people are saying are the angels in Genesis.
While Angels do appear in the N.T., they are usually referred to in the Greek singular form aggelos or aggeloi, the plural form
Why am I saying all of this? Because the context of Genesis 6 does not point nor refer to angels, but to people. Nothing in Genesis whatsoever even hints to angels. The pattern of those who hold to the angelic position always go outside the writings of Moses (internal evidence in Job) and (external evidence in the pseudepigraphal works of the book of Enoch).
What say you all?
The identification of the "sons of God," depending on context will either be human or angel.
The proof-text passage for the "sons of God" in (Gen.6:2,4) as angels comes from (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). The argument is, because the sons of God are identified as angels in Job based on context, then the sons of God in Genesis are also angels. One of the obvious problems with this interpretive method is taking the words and context in Job and inserting it into Genesis. Why is this a problem?
The phrase "sons of God" in majority usage doesn't refer to angels, but to believers (Ps.82:6/ Mal.2:10/ Lk.20:36/ Jn.1:12/ Rom.8:14-23/ Phil.2:15/ Gal.3:26/ Heb.2:10; 12:7/ 1 Jn.3:1-2); There's just not enough context in Genesis 6 to substantiate a definitive angelic interpretation
Genesis—Deuteronomy (written by Moses) always designates "sons of God" to the nation of Israel (Ex.4:22-23/ Deut.14:1; 32:5-6, 18-20.... see also Ps.73:15; 80:15/ Is.43:6/ Hos.1:10; 2:1; 11:1)
When Moses uses the word "angel" it's the Hebrew word "mal'ak" which is used 40x's in the Penteteuch, with around 15-20x's in Genesis depending on translation; the very first occurrence is found in (Gen.16:7) where it refers to a Theophany. Each reference when it refers to angels always calls them angels, not sons of God. The author of Job was aware of the term "angel" (mal'ak) in (Job 4:18).
Why would Moses use the phrase "sons of God" to refer to angels in (Genesis 6) when everywhere else he uses the term "angels" if he had spiritual beings in view?
If you carefully read (Gen.6-9) you'll consistently find the terms "he, his, flesh, man" but not once do we find any address, fault, nor judgment to any angles or angel-hybrid offspring; keep in mind when Adam/Eve sinned in the Garden, everyone involved was addressed, that includes the spiritual power behind the serpent, so it would only make sense if angels breeding with women was the cause for the flood, then the angels should also have been mentioned here in Genesis.
We know the sons of God are angels in Job, not because of the phrase itself, but because of the context.
The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew phrase "bene ha Elohim" (only found exactly in Gen.6:2, 4/ Job 1:6; 2:1) is "huioi tou Theou" which is the plural form; in (Rom.8:19), the singular form "huion tou Theou" is used of believers in Christ
The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew phrase "bene elim/Elohim" which is found in (Job 38:7/ Ps.29:1; 89:6) is "huioi Theou" plural while (Ps.89:6) is singular referring to angels....which is also found in (Mt.5:9/ Gal.3:26) describing believers in Christ. (Mt 5:9) Is especially of interest since the application of the term "sons of God" to humans is made prior to the coming of the SPIRIT and regeneration of truly born-again believers.
In (Job 38:7), the definite article is dropped. In (Hos.1:10) it's Bene El Chay and in (Ps.82:6) is Bene Elyon. So, the sons of God, sons of the Living God, and sons of the Most High God are all synonyms; all same difference with different phrases. We have the same examples with (Num.6:32) "bene Yisrael," (2 Kn.17:20) "zera Yisrael," and (Ex.16:31) "beyth Yisrael"; all three being synonyms. They are just different ways to say the same thing. So, "sons of God" is not an exclusive reference to angelic beings.
One rebuttal is that the Septuagint (LXX) in (Gen.6:2, 4/ Job 1:6; 2:1) uses the phrase "angels of God" and "My angels" in (Job 38:7) and the problem with this is that it's an interpretive translation based of the translators understanding, not an actual translation from the Hebrew into Greek
In the N.T. (e.g. Mt.5:9/ Rom.8:14/ Gal.5:26), if you take "sons of God" in Greek and translate it back into Hebrew, it actually translates back to what people are saying are the angels in Genesis.
While Angels do appear in the N.T., they are usually referred to in the Greek singular form aggelos or aggeloi, the plural form
Why am I saying all of this? Because the context of Genesis 6 does not point nor refer to angels, but to people. Nothing in Genesis whatsoever even hints to angels. The pattern of those who hold to the angelic position always go outside the writings of Moses (internal evidence in Job) and (external evidence in the pseudepigraphal works of the book of Enoch).
What say you all?
Charity · 61-69
@dcba9876
The New Testament tells us that we are adopted into being sons and daughters of God
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Adoption/
God tells David and the Israelites in various places in the Old Testament that they are his children - they are his son - referring to humans but they are not the same as being called the """Sons of God""" which the phrase mentioned around 11 times in the Bible, five times in the Old Testament and is referring in the Old Testament to the angels spiritual beings and in the New Testament humans becoming sons of God or will be called sons of God.
Sons of God: From OT to NT https://share.google/ETBTxopKRpyOMBWQf
The New Testament tells us that we are adopted into being sons and daughters of God
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Adoption/
God tells David and the Israelites in various places in the Old Testament that they are his children - they are his son - referring to humans but they are not the same as being called the """Sons of God""" which the phrase mentioned around 11 times in the Bible, five times in the Old Testament and is referring in the Old Testament to the angels spiritual beings and in the New Testament humans becoming sons of God or will be called sons of God.
Sons of God: From OT to NT https://share.google/ETBTxopKRpyOMBWQf
@dcba9876 Well, the reason for the flood was because that generation had become so terribly wicked and vile that God could not allow that generation to continue and drag those same sins into the next generation and corrupt the earth. They would not repent, after God telling them to do so for their wicked ways, for hundreds of years, so they suffered the consequences.
This message was deleted by its author.
@dcba9876 I love these discussions. After considering many things in different chapters, I think you're right. I don't think these were fallen angels. Good thinking, brother.
When I said Genesis 6, I was repeating what scripture said in the chapter, not verse by verse.
Some have mentioned that the Nephilim are believed to have survived the flood, and their descendants, like the Anakites, were a formidable people who inhabited Canaan. But that's not true, because we know from God's word that no one survived the flood.
When I said Genesis 6, I was repeating what scripture said in the chapter, not verse by verse.
Some have mentioned that the Nephilim are believed to have survived the flood, and their descendants, like the Anakites, were a formidable people who inhabited Canaan. But that's not true, because we know from God's word that no one survived the flood.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@LadyGrace Thank you so much, Mrs.LadyGrace! I'm on the same page as you. I have read all your messages here. I love these discussions myself; really hash things out. There are a couple of other studies I would like to get into to, but this one I just recently finished. I finally was able to really get time to deep dive into the ins-and-outs of this topic.
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving with your family and loved ones 👋
Hope you had a good Thanksgiving with your family and loved ones 👋
Adstar · 56-60, M
Well Some Angels departed from Heaven and came down to earth and took human woman as wives and had hybrid children with them.. These descendants are called Giants in the Bible.. God then flooded to world to wipe the hybrids out and had the angels who left their first estate ( heaven cast into the bottomless pit.. They have a leader in the pit over them called Abaddon.. Later it happened again to a lesser extent and that's why the Hebrews where sent to the land of Canaan to wipe out The Giants who where sons of Anak..
The evidence for me is the Holy Bible.. But there has been some claims of Giant skeleton remains being discovered over history and indications of a more advanced civilization existing before the flood in places like Egypt and South America and Asia.. But i do not rely on those other claims..
The Angels in the bottomless pit will be released from it in the end times and they will go out with great anger to smite people with great pain.. People will wish they could die but they will be unable to die.,.
The evidence for me is the Holy Bible.. But there has been some claims of Giant skeleton remains being discovered over history and indications of a more advanced civilization existing before the flood in places like Egypt and South America and Asia.. But i do not rely on those other claims..
The Angels in the bottomless pit will be released from it in the end times and they will go out with great anger to smite people with great pain.. People will wish they could die but they will be unable to die.,.
Charity · 61-69
Mutation
Trick questions how do we feel about it and then how can we prove it / knowing Darn well what's written in the Bible concerning God and the angels cannot be proven by scientific means but it can't be disproven either.
Just one doesn't accept the words written
In the Bible by those who experience what is written, science is the only means of proof.
And the thing is every single ancient culture talked about Gods from the sky who created the heavens and the Earth and old life upon it.
Then it'll be said they come up with these gods to explain okay / what are they doing now
[media=https://youtu.be/Z5tzv0Mk7as?si=1dHYK5mGj39tMCvF]
[media=https://youtu.be/DagOq0MPig8?si=GemGN3kC6qVqK5RP]
.
Trick questions how do we feel about it and then how can we prove it / knowing Darn well what's written in the Bible concerning God and the angels cannot be proven by scientific means but it can't be disproven either.
Just one doesn't accept the words written
In the Bible by those who experience what is written, science is the only means of proof.
And the thing is every single ancient culture talked about Gods from the sky who created the heavens and the Earth and old life upon it.
Then it'll be said they come up with these gods to explain okay / what are they doing now
[media=https://youtu.be/Z5tzv0Mk7as?si=1dHYK5mGj39tMCvF]
[media=https://youtu.be/DagOq0MPig8?si=GemGN3kC6qVqK5RP]
.
1490wayb · 56-60, M
i like r.c. sproul's explanation of the term...sons of god and the nephilium race
wrule · F
Just wonder how these giants mated with human woman
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity The Bible says in (Heb.10:5) that a body was prepared for JESUS. (Phil.2:5-8) speaks of the pre-incarnated JESUS taking human form. (Jn.1:1, 14) JESUS, as the Logos (the Word) was made flesh and dwelt among us.
So, we have many scriptures that speak of the hypostatic union of God in Christ.
Angels don't have a hypostatic union. They just appear and disappear. This is not something they can do at will. Angels always do the will of God (Ps.103:20-21). Demons don't do the will of God. They especially don't materialize as human beings, but they possess people. There is never an instance of a demon "coming into the world" or taking human form..
We can go back and forth on this, but I have already demonstrated the nephilim are humans, not by angels, but 100% human. "nephilim" is a class or group. It is not from angels and women. You still haven't demonstrated how an incorporeal being can have intimate relations with women. That touches on the nature of God. Why would God create angels with the ability to reproduce with human women (not each other?) and then judge them and their children for it? How do you not see the problem with this? The nephilim were in the earth before and after the marriages (the entire Genesis 6 scenario) and did not arise out of marriages of the sons of God and daughters of men. That's simply mythology.
There are many reason many of those books were rejected and not just blindly accepted as Scripture; some so obvious, forged, or contradictory. Personally, we really don't need any of them. What we have today is God's preserved Word that can be trusted, would you agree?
So, we have many scriptures that speak of the hypostatic union of God in Christ.
Angels don't have a hypostatic union. They just appear and disappear. This is not something they can do at will. Angels always do the will of God (Ps.103:20-21). Demons don't do the will of God. They especially don't materialize as human beings, but they possess people. There is never an instance of a demon "coming into the world" or taking human form..
We can go back and forth on this, but I have already demonstrated the nephilim are humans, not by angels, but 100% human. "nephilim" is a class or group. It is not from angels and women. You still haven't demonstrated how an incorporeal being can have intimate relations with women. That touches on the nature of God. Why would God create angels with the ability to reproduce with human women (not each other?) and then judge them and their children for it? How do you not see the problem with this? The nephilim were in the earth before and after the marriages (the entire Genesis 6 scenario) and did not arise out of marriages of the sons of God and daughters of men. That's simply mythology.
There are many reason many of those books were rejected and not just blindly accepted as Scripture; some so obvious, forged, or contradictory. Personally, we really don't need any of them. What we have today is God's preserved Word that can be trusted, would you agree?
Charity · 61-69
@dcba9876
I agree that the Bible was inspired by the Word of God also all of the books written in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Why pick and choose, all the Hebrew Scriptures of were inspired by the Word of God including those books that was rejected, which is written in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not forgeries, contradictory only to those who chose to believe a certain way concerning certain scriptures.
The body prepared for Jesus was born as humans are born of the elements of the Earth, and as written in KJV 1 John 3:2 we will be like him and see him as he is, his heavenly form is totally different than the human form he was born in two
How many times have angels appeared in human form. Paul even warns us to be aware of how we treat strangers cuz we may be entertaining an angel.
What Does the Bible Say About Angel Sent From God In Human Form? https://share.google/lYUE1Lmamumb0oaYU
And the angels in heaven does as God would have them to do - the fallen Angels didn't follow God's instructions, that is why they are referred to as fallen. That is why hell was prepared for the devil and his angels as Jesus said Matthew 25:41 and we can't leave out those spoken of in Jude 1:6
Enough, believe as you choose, as do I. I could comment more but it makes no sense to continue on, being repetitious.
One thing is for sure, theology on who the nephiliums were and other things Christians are divided on, whether right or wrong does not get them into heaven.
Take care
I agree that the Bible was inspired by the Word of God also all of the books written in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Why pick and choose, all the Hebrew Scriptures of were inspired by the Word of God including those books that was rejected, which is written in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not forgeries, contradictory only to those who chose to believe a certain way concerning certain scriptures.
The body prepared for Jesus was born as humans are born of the elements of the Earth, and as written in KJV 1 John 3:2 we will be like him and see him as he is, his heavenly form is totally different than the human form he was born in two
How many times have angels appeared in human form. Paul even warns us to be aware of how we treat strangers cuz we may be entertaining an angel.
What Does the Bible Say About Angel Sent From God In Human Form? https://share.google/lYUE1Lmamumb0oaYU
And the angels in heaven does as God would have them to do - the fallen Angels didn't follow God's instructions, that is why they are referred to as fallen. That is why hell was prepared for the devil and his angels as Jesus said Matthew 25:41 and we can't leave out those spoken of in Jude 1:6
Enough, believe as you choose, as do I. I could comment more but it makes no sense to continue on, being repetitious.
One thing is for sure, theology on who the nephiliums were and other things Christians are divided on, whether right or wrong does not get them into heaven.
Take care