Genesis 6: The sons of God and the Nephilim
Just did a lengthy study on this. Iron sharpens iron. What is the your viewpoint and what is the evidence of your claims?
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wrule · F
Just wonder how these giants mated with human woman
Charity · 70-79
@wrule there is an misunderstanding: the nephiliums were offspring of the angelic beings and human women.
Now whether these angelic beings actually had sexual intercourse with human females is the question. Most likely they tampered with human DNA / genes, mixing it with their DNA/genes creating their own offspring the Nephilium, through what we call today artificial insemination.
The Book of Enoch goes into a bit of detail on how the Watchers / assigned Angels to Earth did experiments with humans / animals creating monstrosities so why wouldn't they do the same with themselves and humans.
So according to the Book of Enoch there is a great possibility that some of the creatures we called mythology may have actually existed and was destroyed in the flood or however God disposed of them.
And the ODD only things are people today say they are being abducted and experimented with / and the Bible does say they were here then and also after that meaning it will continue.
Now whether these angelic beings actually had sexual intercourse with human females is the question. Most likely they tampered with human DNA / genes, mixing it with their DNA/genes creating their own offspring the Nephilium, through what we call today artificial insemination.
The Book of Enoch goes into a bit of detail on how the Watchers / assigned Angels to Earth did experiments with humans / animals creating monstrosities so why wouldn't they do the same with themselves and humans.
So according to the Book of Enoch there is a great possibility that some of the creatures we called mythology may have actually existed and was destroyed in the flood or however God disposed of them.
And the ODD only things are people today say they are being abducted and experimented with / and the Bible does say they were here then and also after that meaning it will continue.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity Hi, Charity. I want to throw this out there and get your feedback....
As for the "nephilim"...:
It is argued that the "nephilim" were giant angel-human hybrids. It's said that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series meaning "to fall" in Hebrew, giving support to "fallen angels."
It is correct that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series "to fall." "fallen angel," however, is eisegetical. The Hebrew word is "napal/ naphal" and gives strong support to the view that men had "fallen" from God, as we see from the entire context of chapters 6-9. Interestingly, if the sons of God were fallen angels, then why are they not termed the "nephilim", if nephilim means "fallen angel"? Instead, it's referring to their supposed hybrid children.
No one today really knows who the nephilim were. Many associate them with "giants"; the book of Enoch describes them as being 3000 ells = 4000ft which is impossibly large for living creatures, even larger than some mountains. No one has ever found fossils that big, especially a global population of them. One scholar changed it to 300 ells = 450 ft, still unrealistically large. But being large doesn't seem to fit as Goliath was realistically massive and was never referred to as a nephilim. The KJV version translates it as "giants" from the influence of the Latin Vulgate's term "gigantes," (early Latin translation by Jerome), as well as the context from (Num.13:33). Its likely that the Latin was influenced by or followed the Septuagint (LXX), which as already mentioned in my "sons of God" message, is simply an interpretive translation, not an actual translation. But the context of Genesis 6 doesn't really indicate that they were giant beings at all, especially that of the book of Enoch. Contextually, nothing supports freakishly giant hybrids either. Let's say hypothetically they were giants, could the nephilim not have repented? Noah did preach for 120yrs, so they had time. We do know Christ did not die for angels, but He did die for humanity; genetic mutations included, i.e., impaired, mental, deformities, etc.
One commentator noted, "The word 'nephilim' doesn't necessarily means 'giants.' The word may be derived from the Hebrew 'naphal' meaning 'to fall upon others' (e.g. Josh.11:7/ Job 1:15/ Jer.46:16). Therefore, it could refer to those who attack others. This word could also be derived from the Hebrew 'palah,' meaning 'extraordinary,' a word used to describe Antiochus (Dan.8:24) and Johnathan (2 Sam.1:26)."
But look carefully in Genesis 6. We are told the nephilim were actually present during this entire scenario; before and after the marriages and did not arise out of them. Had (v.4) preceded (v.3), the likelihood would have increased that the nephilim were the offspring of these two unions, but the present order of these verses argues the contrary.
Another commentator, "In a parathentical phrase we are told that the nephilim were present during the scenario....Such explanatory, perhaps pedantic, asides may be compared to the phenomena in (Deut.2:10-12; 2:20-23; 3:9, 11, 13-14). Almost all modern versions of the Bible put these five passages in parentheses. The sentence structure and content of Genesis 6:4 interrupt the flow of the narrative, which has led many scholars—both Jewish and Christian—to view this verse as a parenthetical or explanatory note inserted by Moses to clarify who these 'sons of God' and their offspring were."
That the nephilim reappear in (Num.13) presents problems also. Some claim this is a second incursion of angelic sex inserted into the text, but this is mere conjecture. Others claim "the nephilim name lives on" which is easily dismissed as a desperate attempt to save the viewpoint. Still, if the angels in Genesis 6 are the angels in (2 Pt.2:4) that are locked up, the how did the nephilim reappear in Numbers 13? If the angels were having sexual relations with women before and after the flood, then there's nothing stopping them from having sexual relations with women today, but this is not possible.
The Book of Numbers uses "nephilim" to describe human parents (sons of Anak; Num.13:33). If "nephilim" denotes offspring of human parents in (Num.13), then why not in (Gen.6:4), especially when the context points to humanity?
Another commentator, "Also, a theological problem presents itself for the fallen angel view if we look at the Anakites (descendants of Anak), descendants of the nephilim according to (Num.13:33). The Anakites we're not completely wiped out (Josh.11:22). Thus, The Bible never records their line ending and no reason to assume the descendants of Anak are still not living today. In fact, they may have interbred with many other people groups since then [but we don't see giants today as supposed by Gen.6/ Num.13]. Being sons of Anak also shows they can exist without being the sexual union of the "sons of God."
Therefore, the nephilim can not to be identified as the offspring of the sons of God. They were already present prior to their offspring.
What say you?
As for the "nephilim"...:
It is argued that the "nephilim" were giant angel-human hybrids. It's said that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series meaning "to fall" in Hebrew, giving support to "fallen angels."
It is correct that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series "to fall." "fallen angel," however, is eisegetical. The Hebrew word is "napal/ naphal" and gives strong support to the view that men had "fallen" from God, as we see from the entire context of chapters 6-9. Interestingly, if the sons of God were fallen angels, then why are they not termed the "nephilim", if nephilim means "fallen angel"? Instead, it's referring to their supposed hybrid children.
No one today really knows who the nephilim were. Many associate them with "giants"; the book of Enoch describes them as being 3000 ells = 4000ft which is impossibly large for living creatures, even larger than some mountains. No one has ever found fossils that big, especially a global population of them. One scholar changed it to 300 ells = 450 ft, still unrealistically large. But being large doesn't seem to fit as Goliath was realistically massive and was never referred to as a nephilim. The KJV version translates it as "giants" from the influence of the Latin Vulgate's term "gigantes," (early Latin translation by Jerome), as well as the context from (Num.13:33). Its likely that the Latin was influenced by or followed the Septuagint (LXX), which as already mentioned in my "sons of God" message, is simply an interpretive translation, not an actual translation. But the context of Genesis 6 doesn't really indicate that they were giant beings at all, especially that of the book of Enoch. Contextually, nothing supports freakishly giant hybrids either. Let's say hypothetically they were giants, could the nephilim not have repented? Noah did preach for 120yrs, so they had time. We do know Christ did not die for angels, but He did die for humanity; genetic mutations included, i.e., impaired, mental, deformities, etc.
One commentator noted, "The word 'nephilim' doesn't necessarily means 'giants.' The word may be derived from the Hebrew 'naphal' meaning 'to fall upon others' (e.g. Josh.11:7/ Job 1:15/ Jer.46:16). Therefore, it could refer to those who attack others. This word could also be derived from the Hebrew 'palah,' meaning 'extraordinary,' a word used to describe Antiochus (Dan.8:24) and Johnathan (2 Sam.1:26)."
But look carefully in Genesis 6. We are told the nephilim were actually present during this entire scenario; before and after the marriages and did not arise out of them. Had (v.4) preceded (v.3), the likelihood would have increased that the nephilim were the offspring of these two unions, but the present order of these verses argues the contrary.
Another commentator, "In a parathentical phrase we are told that the nephilim were present during the scenario....Such explanatory, perhaps pedantic, asides may be compared to the phenomena in (Deut.2:10-12; 2:20-23; 3:9, 11, 13-14). Almost all modern versions of the Bible put these five passages in parentheses. The sentence structure and content of Genesis 6:4 interrupt the flow of the narrative, which has led many scholars—both Jewish and Christian—to view this verse as a parenthetical or explanatory note inserted by Moses to clarify who these 'sons of God' and their offspring were."
That the nephilim reappear in (Num.13) presents problems also. Some claim this is a second incursion of angelic sex inserted into the text, but this is mere conjecture. Others claim "the nephilim name lives on" which is easily dismissed as a desperate attempt to save the viewpoint. Still, if the angels in Genesis 6 are the angels in (2 Pt.2:4) that are locked up, the how did the nephilim reappear in Numbers 13? If the angels were having sexual relations with women before and after the flood, then there's nothing stopping them from having sexual relations with women today, but this is not possible.
The Book of Numbers uses "nephilim" to describe human parents (sons of Anak; Num.13:33). If "nephilim" denotes offspring of human parents in (Num.13), then why not in (Gen.6:4), especially when the context points to humanity?
Another commentator, "Also, a theological problem presents itself for the fallen angel view if we look at the Anakites (descendants of Anak), descendants of the nephilim according to (Num.13:33). The Anakites we're not completely wiped out (Josh.11:22). Thus, The Bible never records their line ending and no reason to assume the descendants of Anak are still not living today. In fact, they may have interbred with many other people groups since then [but we don't see giants today as supposed by Gen.6/ Num.13]. Being sons of Anak also shows they can exist without being the sexual union of the "sons of God."
Therefore, the nephilim can not to be identified as the offspring of the sons of God. They were already present prior to their offspring.
What say you?
Charity · 70-79
@dcba9876
1) fallen / naphal a word which applies to Angels - their offspring - humans. Not specifically to Angels.
Strong's Hebrew: 5307. נָפַל (naphal) -- To fall, to lie, to be cast down, to fail https://share.google/pk2SqETdBTJrWsHy1
2) Nephilium is defined as to Giants also / one and the same.
Strong's Hebrew: 5303. נְפִילִים (Nephilim) -- Giants https://share.google/CMRZhD8IiXqweN3Oo
3) There is strong a possibility that in the Book of Enoch whosoever wrote it actually meant 40 cubits. Which would make them 59' tall. Now if herds of dinosaurs can exist on this Earth 60 feet tall there is a strong possibility genetic splicing mixing DNA could produce such humans. And it's a strong possibility much of that DNA is still here
The sons of Anak in which Goliath was one, who were The offspring of the Giants / Nephilims. Goliath 6 cubits and a span, close to 10 ft tall. And we do have people from time to time that are extremely tall, 8 ft 11 in is the record.
Numbers 13:33 / Deuteronomy 9:2 / Joshua 12:4 refers to the Giants. And in Numbers 13:33 in the Hebrew Bible the word nephilims is used
Numbers 13:33 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/rDl5x4ivg3yQ39463
Deuteronomy 9:2 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/RuswUYe9W8HSQkEBE
3) No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s.
4) As it was in the days of Noah social would be in the coming of the Son of Man. And it is clear in Genesis 6 when it says "and after that", the mixing was still being done but not openly and widely abundantly. In the days of Noah humans knew exactly what they were doing and it's going to be that way again they will be deliberately mixing their genes with Angela genes before the end of time.
I have touched on all you wrote of that I care to touch on, you see I am not trying to change your views. I as well as millions of others Christians believe differently. And as time continues to pass many Christians are beginning to believe as I do. Throughout much my life most ministers before the 1970s taught that the sons of God was referring to Seth. The thing is and most of the Old Testament when the sons of God was reverted to it was referring to those we call angelic beings.
Food for thought : You see the Canaanites served, worshiped Elohim / El. Melchizedek was a Canaanite, king of Salem and he was the servant of the most high God whom the Hebrews through Abraham began to serve and was chosen to be by Elohim to be his chosen people. The name of the city did not change until David changed it to Jeru-salem almost 2,000 years later. And the Canaanites taught that Elohim had 70 sons, not Angels Angels were the servants. So those 70 sons could be the ones that are being spoken of in Genesis 6.
I don't know ancient Hebrew nor does anyone alive, and even those who translated scriptures didn't know the ancient Hebrew languages and the meanings of their words. Words change over thousands of years some cease to exist. now those who are writing / translating scripture, even from the Dead Sea Scrolls are translating Nephiliums to mean Giants / the sons of Anak / the offspring of the Nephilium. why don't you find these translators and voice your disagreements.
After all the only thing that we can go by is what they put in front of us already, it's the teachings that has been passed down is the only thing we can use. Unless you come from 4,000 years ago no one knows the ancient Hebrew language.
1) fallen / naphal a word which applies to Angels - their offspring - humans. Not specifically to Angels.
Strong's Hebrew: 5307. נָפַל (naphal) -- To fall, to lie, to be cast down, to fail https://share.google/pk2SqETdBTJrWsHy1
2) Nephilium is defined as to Giants also / one and the same.
Strong's Hebrew: 5303. נְפִילִים (Nephilim) -- Giants https://share.google/CMRZhD8IiXqweN3Oo
3) There is strong a possibility that in the Book of Enoch whosoever wrote it actually meant 40 cubits. Which would make them 59' tall. Now if herds of dinosaurs can exist on this Earth 60 feet tall there is a strong possibility genetic splicing mixing DNA could produce such humans. And it's a strong possibility much of that DNA is still here
The sons of Anak in which Goliath was one, who were The offspring of the Giants / Nephilims. Goliath 6 cubits and a span, close to 10 ft tall. And we do have people from time to time that are extremely tall, 8 ft 11 in is the record.
Numbers 13:33 / Deuteronomy 9:2 / Joshua 12:4 refers to the Giants. And in Numbers 13:33 in the Hebrew Bible the word nephilims is used
Numbers 13:33 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/rDl5x4ivg3yQ39463
Deuteronomy 9:2 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/RuswUYe9W8HSQkEBE
3) No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s.
4) As it was in the days of Noah social would be in the coming of the Son of Man. And it is clear in Genesis 6 when it says "and after that", the mixing was still being done but not openly and widely abundantly. In the days of Noah humans knew exactly what they were doing and it's going to be that way again they will be deliberately mixing their genes with Angela genes before the end of time.
I have touched on all you wrote of that I care to touch on, you see I am not trying to change your views. I as well as millions of others Christians believe differently. And as time continues to pass many Christians are beginning to believe as I do. Throughout much my life most ministers before the 1970s taught that the sons of God was referring to Seth. The thing is and most of the Old Testament when the sons of God was reverted to it was referring to those we call angelic beings.
Food for thought : You see the Canaanites served, worshiped Elohim / El. Melchizedek was a Canaanite, king of Salem and he was the servant of the most high God whom the Hebrews through Abraham began to serve and was chosen to be by Elohim to be his chosen people. The name of the city did not change until David changed it to Jeru-salem almost 2,000 years later. And the Canaanites taught that Elohim had 70 sons, not Angels Angels were the servants. So those 70 sons could be the ones that are being spoken of in Genesis 6.
I don't know ancient Hebrew nor does anyone alive, and even those who translated scriptures didn't know the ancient Hebrew languages and the meanings of their words. Words change over thousands of years some cease to exist. now those who are writing / translating scripture, even from the Dead Sea Scrolls are translating Nephiliums to mean Giants / the sons of Anak / the offspring of the Nephilium. why don't you find these translators and voice your disagreements.
After all the only thing that we can go by is what they put in front of us already, it's the teachings that has been passed down is the only thing we can use. Unless you come from 4,000 years ago no one knows the ancient Hebrew language.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity Now now Mrs.Charity. You are assuming that "naphal* refers to angels/hybrid offspring. That you have yet to prove to me, biblically.
Contrary to possibility, the book of Enoch says 3000 ells = 4,500ft. tall hybrids; that's pretty mythological and unrealistic to believe, wouldn't you think?
You mention "DNA splicing," I assume in reference to supposed angels and humans reproducing giant children and their DNA as a synthetic type. First lol there's no proof for this. It's just a claim. Secondly, you have yet to prove the sons of God are angels. Third, you have not addressed how incorporeal beings can have sexual relations with human women. Possession certainly does not count; that's sci-fi to suppose. Fourthly, biblical exegesis doesn't not start with outside forgeries and then move to Canaanite mythology. Those sources are not commentaries for God's Word. You do not exceed what is written. Stay within biblical parameters.
You mention God may have taken the nephilim. This goes against your own position. Those who hold to your view claim God wiped out the nephilim in judgment; all of them. Therefore, they are not in God's kingdom. God did take them; in judgment to Sheol, i.e. hell.
You said "as in the days of Noah"...and stopped there. You later said that commentaries basically got it wrong to say this refers to people who "eat, drink, marry, give in marriage" and that it was nonsense.....but you mention aliens and abductions. I'm starting to wonder, do you have a Christian background? Perhaps a progressive...? I say this with no disrespect, ma'am but you have some pretty eccentric beliefs that are not substantiated by Scripture.
You also mention many "it's possible's" and "possibilities" which is just speculation and not factual.
I challenge your worldview in Genesis 6 because that's really nonsense, in the sense, it makes no sense. Just because people believe like you doesn't prove anything. In the end, there will only be a remnant of like-minded believers. JESUS as God will not be the majority vote. So, numbers as proof is not good to argue.
By the way, you can do a quick Google search. There are many experts in ancient Hebrew today. I'll leave you with three things:
1.) someone once said, "O mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?"
2.) someone also said, "if you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough the people will believe it."
3.) 2 Timothy 4:3-4 states, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."
Contrary to possibility, the book of Enoch says 3000 ells = 4,500ft. tall hybrids; that's pretty mythological and unrealistic to believe, wouldn't you think?
You mention "DNA splicing," I assume in reference to supposed angels and humans reproducing giant children and their DNA as a synthetic type. First lol there's no proof for this. It's just a claim. Secondly, you have yet to prove the sons of God are angels. Third, you have not addressed how incorporeal beings can have sexual relations with human women. Possession certainly does not count; that's sci-fi to suppose. Fourthly, biblical exegesis doesn't not start with outside forgeries and then move to Canaanite mythology. Those sources are not commentaries for God's Word. You do not exceed what is written. Stay within biblical parameters.
You mention God may have taken the nephilim. This goes against your own position. Those who hold to your view claim God wiped out the nephilim in judgment; all of them. Therefore, they are not in God's kingdom. God did take them; in judgment to Sheol, i.e. hell.
You said "as in the days of Noah"...and stopped there. You later said that commentaries basically got it wrong to say this refers to people who "eat, drink, marry, give in marriage" and that it was nonsense.....but you mention aliens and abductions. I'm starting to wonder, do you have a Christian background? Perhaps a progressive...? I say this with no disrespect, ma'am but you have some pretty eccentric beliefs that are not substantiated by Scripture.
You also mention many "it's possible's" and "possibilities" which is just speculation and not factual.
I challenge your worldview in Genesis 6 because that's really nonsense, in the sense, it makes no sense. Just because people believe like you doesn't prove anything. In the end, there will only be a remnant of like-minded believers. JESUS as God will not be the majority vote. So, numbers as proof is not good to argue.
By the way, you can do a quick Google search. There are many experts in ancient Hebrew today. I'll leave you with three things:
1.) someone once said, "O mortal man, is there anything you cannot be made to believe?"
2.) someone also said, "if you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough the people will believe it."
3.) 2 Timothy 4:3-4 states, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."
Charity · 70-79
Now now, apparently you have toddlers.
I am not trying to prove to you anything if you refuse to accept what's written in Strong's concordance concerning those scriptures and who or what the Nephiliums were that is your concern. Strong's concordance was issued in 1890.
James Strong's was a professor in exegetical theology and spent 35 years in his studies including everything that you have listed, which actually is no proof that your analogy is correct.
NOWHERE in the Bible does God claim to have wiped out the nephiliums. God told Noah he was going to destroy all of mankind. People ASSUME he did. And I didn't say God took the nephiliums to his kingdom, I said he took them, never said what he did with them!
I'm not asking you to agree with me and I stated so. You and I are two separate people you have your beliefs I have mine, as simple as that. There are different beliefs, different theologies concerning SOME scriptures and the possibilities of what they can mean. That is why there are so many different denominations of churches and I'm not here to debate with you, I give my beliefs as you do yours. And just because you and those who agree with you believe as you do, **whatever it is** doesn't prove you are correct Either.
Those who believe that the sons of God spoken of in Genesis 6 are not referring to heavenly beings but the descendants of Seth Makes NO Sense, and and scripture even says begin to look upon the daughters of man, man is Adam.
And yes I did say it is possible and gave the possibility.
And yes I did bring up alien abduction. From today's point of view the word extraterrestrial means being or object not from Earth. And one of the definitions of alien is being or object not from Earth. God is not from Earth, angels are not from Earth. Am I a Christian definitely!! are you???? Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. God the Father's kingdoms are not of this world and he has more than one kingdom. Paul spoke of three heavens and many places in the Bible heavens is written with an s, plural...... John wrote that Jesus will be seen coming from the clouds in the sky with his angels.
I don't have to do a quick Google search to know that there are many people out there to claim to be experts in this, that, or the other including ancient languages that doesn't prove that they are absolutely correct and they're interpretations of what the language are written words of the ancients. You see somebody centuries ago had to interpret their views on what any written ancient language meant, and that is passed down through the centuries.
You are so correct about sound doctrine, prove that doctrine is the absolute truth. All you can do is give what somebody else interpreted and your belief that what they say is true, and then indirectly accusing me of not having sound doctrine while you are doing the same thing accepting doctrine that somebody else say it is sound, goodbye nice conversation.
It is Pointless to go any further, besides arguing / debating over what is written, as Paul said don't do it.
And I'll leave you with this
[media=https://youtu.be/Z5tzv0Mk7as?si=1dHYK5mGj39tMCvF]
[media=https://youtu.be/DagOq0MPig8?si=GemGN3kC6qVqK5RP]
I had to edit this because I forgot to say this up until around 150 years ago majority of the people in the world did not know how to read or write. 2,000 years ago when the Book of Enoch was said to may have been written far less people knew how to read and write. And people of today expect for them to have been literally / chronologically / absolutely correct by the standards of today.
I am not trying to prove to you anything if you refuse to accept what's written in Strong's concordance concerning those scriptures and who or what the Nephiliums were that is your concern. Strong's concordance was issued in 1890.
James Strong's was a professor in exegetical theology and spent 35 years in his studies including everything that you have listed, which actually is no proof that your analogy is correct.
NOWHERE in the Bible does God claim to have wiped out the nephiliums. God told Noah he was going to destroy all of mankind. People ASSUME he did. And I didn't say God took the nephiliums to his kingdom, I said he took them, never said what he did with them!
I'm not asking you to agree with me and I stated so. You and I are two separate people you have your beliefs I have mine, as simple as that. There are different beliefs, different theologies concerning SOME scriptures and the possibilities of what they can mean. That is why there are so many different denominations of churches and I'm not here to debate with you, I give my beliefs as you do yours. And just because you and those who agree with you believe as you do, **whatever it is** doesn't prove you are correct Either.
Those who believe that the sons of God spoken of in Genesis 6 are not referring to heavenly beings but the descendants of Seth Makes NO Sense, and and scripture even says begin to look upon the daughters of man, man is Adam.
And yes I did say it is possible and gave the possibility.
And yes I did bring up alien abduction. From today's point of view the word extraterrestrial means being or object not from Earth. And one of the definitions of alien is being or object not from Earth. God is not from Earth, angels are not from Earth. Am I a Christian definitely!! are you???? Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world. God the Father's kingdoms are not of this world and he has more than one kingdom. Paul spoke of three heavens and many places in the Bible heavens is written with an s, plural...... John wrote that Jesus will be seen coming from the clouds in the sky with his angels.
I don't have to do a quick Google search to know that there are many people out there to claim to be experts in this, that, or the other including ancient languages that doesn't prove that they are absolutely correct and they're interpretations of what the language are written words of the ancients. You see somebody centuries ago had to interpret their views on what any written ancient language meant, and that is passed down through the centuries.
You are so correct about sound doctrine, prove that doctrine is the absolute truth. All you can do is give what somebody else interpreted and your belief that what they say is true, and then indirectly accusing me of not having sound doctrine while you are doing the same thing accepting doctrine that somebody else say it is sound, goodbye nice conversation.
It is Pointless to go any further, besides arguing / debating over what is written, as Paul said don't do it.
And I'll leave you with this
[media=https://youtu.be/Z5tzv0Mk7as?si=1dHYK5mGj39tMCvF]
[media=https://youtu.be/DagOq0MPig8?si=GemGN3kC6qVqK5RP]
I had to edit this because I forgot to say this up until around 150 years ago majority of the people in the world did not know how to read or write. 2,000 years ago when the Book of Enoch was said to may have been written far less people knew how to read and write. And people of today expect for them to have been literally / chronologically / absolutely correct by the standards of today.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity There are way better resources than a Strongs Concordance, but Strongs doesn't say angels or offspring for the Hebrew there. You're adding due to a bias. Actually for "giants" (KJV) it says: "nephiyl - From H5307; {properly} a {feller} that {is} a bully or tyrant: - giant."
and from H5307: "naphal - A primitive root; to {fall} in a great variety of applications (intransitively or {causatively} literally or figuratively): - be {accepted} cast ({down} {self} {[lots]} {out}) {cease} {die} divide (by {lot}) (let) {fail} (cause {to} {let} {make} ready to) fall ({away} {down} {-en} {-ing}) fell ({-ing}) {fugitive} have {[inheritamce]} {inferior} be judged [by mistake for {H6419]} lay ({along}) (cause to) lie {down} light ({down}) be (X hast) {lost} {lying} {overthrow} {overwhelm} {perish} present ({-ed} {-ing}) (make to) {rot} {slay} smite {out} X {surely} throw down"
There is absolutely nothing about angels or hybrid offspring.
There's good reason to believe the nephilim were judged with everyone:
(Genesis 6:17-18) "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die. But I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you."
(Genesis 7:23) "He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark.”
(1 Peter 3:20) "because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, [t]eight persons, were brought safely through water."
(2 Peter 2:5) "If he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly."
The "nephilim" were people, not angel hybrids. Ah, but you did say God took them, even placing them into His kingdom (unless I read you wrong). Here's what you typed....:
"No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s."
That the sons of God are humans fit perfectly. The hebrew âdâm — Strongs H120, since you use Strongs, says: From H119; {ruddy} that {is} a human being (an individual or the {species} {mankind } etc.): - X {another} + {hypocrite} + common {sort} X {low} man ({mean} of low {degree}) person.
"âdâm" — depending on context, means either humanity or the individual Adam; that's it. The "daughters of men" = daughters of humanity, not daughter of Adam.
The Bible does not describe God or spirits as aliens or extraterrestrials but are spirits; very different terms.
Yes, three heavens, i.e., not three levels: the sky above us (Gen.1:20), the cosmos (Gen.1:14), and God's dwelling place (2 Cor.12:2-4). Again, the Greek helps here. Are you a Mormon by chance?
They are experts, but if they are not by your standard, then who are you? By your own admission you don't know ancient Hebrew and so it's absurd to make that claim unless you can demonstrate otherwise...?
I'm not arguing the book of Enoch. It has no place alongside the Bible. It's a pseudepigraphal forgery, i.e., someone claiming to be the Enoch of Genesis, who wrote it in the 3BC and had his own ideas. The book of Enoch has more problems than just angel sex. The most you can pull from Enoch is what the Jews of that time believed about certain things.
and from H5307: "naphal - A primitive root; to {fall} in a great variety of applications (intransitively or {causatively} literally or figuratively): - be {accepted} cast ({down} {self} {[lots]} {out}) {cease} {die} divide (by {lot}) (let) {fail} (cause {to} {let} {make} ready to) fall ({away} {down} {-en} {-ing}) fell ({-ing}) {fugitive} have {[inheritamce]} {inferior} be judged [by mistake for {H6419]} lay ({along}) (cause to) lie {down} light ({down}) be (X hast) {lost} {lying} {overthrow} {overwhelm} {perish} present ({-ed} {-ing}) (make to) {rot} {slay} smite {out} X {surely} throw down"
There is absolutely nothing about angels or hybrid offspring.
There's good reason to believe the nephilim were judged with everyone:
(Genesis 6:17-18) "For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die. But I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you."
(Genesis 7:23) "He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark.”
(1 Peter 3:20) "because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, [t]eight persons, were brought safely through water."
(2 Peter 2:5) "If he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly."
The "nephilim" were people, not angel hybrids. Ah, but you did say God took them, even placing them into His kingdom (unless I read you wrong). Here's what you typed....:
"No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s."
That the sons of God are humans fit perfectly. The hebrew âdâm — Strongs H120, since you use Strongs, says: From H119; {ruddy} that {is} a human being (an individual or the {species} {mankind } etc.): - X {another} + {hypocrite} + common {sort} X {low} man ({mean} of low {degree}) person.
"âdâm" — depending on context, means either humanity or the individual Adam; that's it. The "daughters of men" = daughters of humanity, not daughter of Adam.
The Bible does not describe God or spirits as aliens or extraterrestrials but are spirits; very different terms.
Yes, three heavens, i.e., not three levels: the sky above us (Gen.1:20), the cosmos (Gen.1:14), and God's dwelling place (2 Cor.12:2-4). Again, the Greek helps here. Are you a Mormon by chance?
They are experts, but if they are not by your standard, then who are you? By your own admission you don't know ancient Hebrew and so it's absurd to make that claim unless you can demonstrate otherwise...?
I'm not arguing the book of Enoch. It has no place alongside the Bible. It's a pseudepigraphal forgery, i.e., someone claiming to be the Enoch of Genesis, who wrote it in the 3BC and had his own ideas. The book of Enoch has more problems than just angel sex. The most you can pull from Enoch is what the Jews of that time believed about certain things.
Charity · 70-79
@dcba9876
I have been studying scriptures for decades. And I have done research by reading books, and the past 10 years on the internet. And I am fully aware of all the information that's out there I am fully aware of the different beliefs.
I have read many different theologies / sources of the definition of the Hebrew word n a p h a l. I chose the Strong's concordance because it is simpler, and I am aware it gives ALL the different ways meanings, different ways the word was used. And Strong as well as others that I have researched gives reference that angels are the fallen ones, sons of God as written in Genesis 6 and in the Book of Job and the nephiliums are the result of angelic human inbreeding. Yet you think that I have not studied but I tell you I've been studying over 40 years.
As I said different theologies put different people.
Josephus 37/100 AD who was a Jewish theologian wrote in his antiquities 1:3:1 the angels took human women. LONG BEFORE THE ROMAN CHURCH AND ENGLISH CHURCH EXISTED and their interpretations.
The Antiquities of the Jews 1:3:1 https://share.google/Akxp2qOY97KQk86oW
The Book of Enoch, written over 2000 years ago, I believe I've already stated and is a part of the HEBREW Dead Sea Scrolls.
Encyclopedia Britannica gives the different theologies
Nephilim | Definition, Interpretations, & Scripture | Britannica https://share.google/22mfJfsOeMMihqx87
The Nephilim and the Sons of God - Biblical Archaeology Society https://share.google/wMeThmWK0bk2PUac7
1st Corinthians 11:2-16 Paul warns that women should keep covering over their heads **because of the Angels.** It the majority of explanations I've heard from many different pastors makes no sense.
Jude 1:6 talks about the angels that left their first estate that is held in chains of darkness. These Angels were not cast out of heaven as where the one referred to as the devil and his followers! But as concluded by many they are the angels written of in the Book of Genesis.
You are one who are is fixated on attempting to prove others wrong and you're right. And you have failed to prove you're right and love comment that another hasn't proven their beliefs. And you're using, just as others do information passed down over the centuries. Unless you lived 5 / 6,000 years ago all you can do is take Faith in what someone else translated interpreted and believe and passed down through the centuries and I believe I've already said that.
The way I look at it another ploy of the devil, make them think Genesis 6 is referring to humans only, so when the time come to pass - as it was in the days of Noah again - they will be totally unaware and unprepared.
As Daniel's 12:04 knowledge will increase in the last days. And it has and steadily increasing.
I have been studying scriptures for decades. And I have done research by reading books, and the past 10 years on the internet. And I am fully aware of all the information that's out there I am fully aware of the different beliefs.
I have read many different theologies / sources of the definition of the Hebrew word n a p h a l. I chose the Strong's concordance because it is simpler, and I am aware it gives ALL the different ways meanings, different ways the word was used. And Strong as well as others that I have researched gives reference that angels are the fallen ones, sons of God as written in Genesis 6 and in the Book of Job and the nephiliums are the result of angelic human inbreeding. Yet you think that I have not studied but I tell you I've been studying over 40 years.
As I said different theologies put different people.
Josephus 37/100 AD who was a Jewish theologian wrote in his antiquities 1:3:1 the angels took human women. LONG BEFORE THE ROMAN CHURCH AND ENGLISH CHURCH EXISTED and their interpretations.
The Antiquities of the Jews 1:3:1 https://share.google/Akxp2qOY97KQk86oW
The Book of Enoch, written over 2000 years ago, I believe I've already stated and is a part of the HEBREW Dead Sea Scrolls.
Encyclopedia Britannica gives the different theologies
Nephilim | Definition, Interpretations, & Scripture | Britannica https://share.google/22mfJfsOeMMihqx87
The Nephilim and the Sons of God - Biblical Archaeology Society https://share.google/wMeThmWK0bk2PUac7
1st Corinthians 11:2-16 Paul warns that women should keep covering over their heads **because of the Angels.** It the majority of explanations I've heard from many different pastors makes no sense.
Jude 1:6 talks about the angels that left their first estate that is held in chains of darkness. These Angels were not cast out of heaven as where the one referred to as the devil and his followers! But as concluded by many they are the angels written of in the Book of Genesis.
You are one who are is fixated on attempting to prove others wrong and you're right. And you have failed to prove you're right and love comment that another hasn't proven their beliefs. And you're using, just as others do information passed down over the centuries. Unless you lived 5 / 6,000 years ago all you can do is take Faith in what someone else translated interpreted and believe and passed down through the centuries and I believe I've already said that.
The way I look at it another ploy of the devil, make them think Genesis 6 is referring to humans only, so when the time come to pass - as it was in the days of Noah again - they will be totally unaware and unprepared.
As Daniel's 12:04 knowledge will increase in the last days. And it has and steadily increasing.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity Actually, I came on here to be challenged and to see how people think on this topic. It's pretty crazy, just from what you showed me. The "sons of God" in (Genesis 6) is irrefutably human; no question. The nephilim are human and not the children of these unions. This entire angel sex completely disrupts the biblical flow of human sin with the serpent seed of that of the woman's seed. Angels and women? Really?
Josephus, book of Enoch Jubilees, even some Gnostic writings mention angel sex lol. That doesn't convince me. Prove it in the text, in the context, using words and syntax. Not Enoch, not Canaanite pagan mythology....simply God's Word.
(1 Cor.11:2-16) doesn't prove what your saying lol how can you use that? These seem like desperate attempts. This is exactly how false teachers cherry pick to convince their audience. The angel sex view also disrupts.
Jude 5-7 lists 3 examples of judgment to those who rebelled against God: Jews (v.5), angels (v.6), and Gentile (v.7). There is no context in Jude 6 to point to angel sex. It says "the angels that sinned." This refers to all demons. They are in darkness eternally; they will never receive redemption. Their fate is sealed until the great day. The run free until then. Nothing mythological about it and it fits the narrative. Again, "angels written of in Genesis 6" is simply a claim. You haven't demonstrated it.
The evidence is clear, but you have presuppositions you have to override. I haven't failed. Others reading can decide for themselves. That's what debates are about. I'm not going to convince you or you me, but others reading can decide for themselves based on the evidences presented.
Actually, anyone who reads Genesis 6 for the first time, without already being conditioned by this idea of angels raping women, will not interpret "sons of God" as angels. Moses always uses the Hebrew "mal'ak for angels everywhere else in the Penteteuch while using "sons of God" for the nation of Israel (Ex.4:22-23/ Deut.14:1; 32:5-6, 18-20); see also (Ps.73:15; 80:15/ Is.43:6/ Hos.1:10; 2:1; 11:1). I don't need 5-6000 years ago. I read it for myself. "Angels" are not there. That can be attributed to the book of Enoch.
Sigh. First off, the "as in the days of Noah" text (Mt 24:37-39) is referring exactly to what you said: "they will be totally unaware and unprepared." That's precisely JESUS' point. Charity, read the context man lol stop cherry picking. That passage would be referring to JESUS' return, right? No one knows. People just live how they want and then judgment will come. Just read it all from (v.36-51). That is not referring to "as in the days of Noah...everyone is going to have sex with angels and the I will return and judge them" lol c'mon Charity.
(Dan.2:43; 12:4/ 1 Cor.11;2-16) simply does not mean what you say it means. Decades of studying? No. Decades of believing the angel view, yes but not exegetical Bible study. Not convinced. What are you even basing this whole premise off of?
I start with the Bible and end with the Bible. Unless you have more to say, I'm finished lol
Josephus, book of Enoch Jubilees, even some Gnostic writings mention angel sex lol. That doesn't convince me. Prove it in the text, in the context, using words and syntax. Not Enoch, not Canaanite pagan mythology....simply God's Word.
(1 Cor.11:2-16) doesn't prove what your saying lol how can you use that? These seem like desperate attempts. This is exactly how false teachers cherry pick to convince their audience. The angel sex view also disrupts.
Jude 5-7 lists 3 examples of judgment to those who rebelled against God: Jews (v.5), angels (v.6), and Gentile (v.7). There is no context in Jude 6 to point to angel sex. It says "the angels that sinned." This refers to all demons. They are in darkness eternally; they will never receive redemption. Their fate is sealed until the great day. The run free until then. Nothing mythological about it and it fits the narrative. Again, "angels written of in Genesis 6" is simply a claim. You haven't demonstrated it.
The evidence is clear, but you have presuppositions you have to override. I haven't failed. Others reading can decide for themselves. That's what debates are about. I'm not going to convince you or you me, but others reading can decide for themselves based on the evidences presented.
Actually, anyone who reads Genesis 6 for the first time, without already being conditioned by this idea of angels raping women, will not interpret "sons of God" as angels. Moses always uses the Hebrew "mal'ak for angels everywhere else in the Penteteuch while using "sons of God" for the nation of Israel (Ex.4:22-23/ Deut.14:1; 32:5-6, 18-20); see also (Ps.73:15; 80:15/ Is.43:6/ Hos.1:10; 2:1; 11:1). I don't need 5-6000 years ago. I read it for myself. "Angels" are not there. That can be attributed to the book of Enoch.
Sigh. First off, the "as in the days of Noah" text (Mt 24:37-39) is referring exactly to what you said: "they will be totally unaware and unprepared." That's precisely JESUS' point. Charity, read the context man lol stop cherry picking. That passage would be referring to JESUS' return, right? No one knows. People just live how they want and then judgment will come. Just read it all from (v.36-51). That is not referring to "as in the days of Noah...everyone is going to have sex with angels and the I will return and judge them" lol c'mon Charity.
(Dan.2:43; 12:4/ 1 Cor.11;2-16) simply does not mean what you say it means. Decades of studying? No. Decades of believing the angel view, yes but not exegetical Bible study. Not convinced. What are you even basing this whole premise off of?
I start with the Bible and end with the Bible. Unless you have more to say, I'm finished lol
Charity · 70-79
@dcba9876
When I was a "child" I questioned my uncle who was a minister about who the sons of God was they were talking about it. I questioned my uncle on whose Cain's wife was when he said he married his sister. So your statement is totally wrong when you say anyone who hasn't been influenced will automatically think the sons of God are men.
And again think what you want to think, believe what you want to believe, as do I.
Good bye
When I was a "child" I questioned my uncle who was a minister about who the sons of God was they were talking about it. I questioned my uncle on whose Cain's wife was when he said he married his sister. So your statement is totally wrong when you say anyone who hasn't been influenced will automatically think the sons of God are men.
And again think what you want to think, believe what you want to believe, as do I.
Good bye
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity No, I'm not wrong. You actually just proved my point. You read and asked who the sons of God were. So, at that moment you had no clue as to who they were.
Interestingly, you didn't come to the conclusion on your own that they were angels, and rightfully so as this is not the natural reading. And that's my point. So, you're not conditioned here.
But If your uncle answered "angels" then at that very moment you were just taught and conditioned to believe they were angels. And then it goes back to where he got it from and so on and so forth.
Thanks for the conversation.
Interestingly, you didn't come to the conclusion on your own that they were angels, and rightfully so as this is not the natural reading. And that's my point. So, you're not conditioned here.
But If your uncle answered "angels" then at that very moment you were just taught and conditioned to believe they were angels. And then it goes back to where he got it from and so on and so forth.
Thanks for the conversation.
Charity · 70-79
@dcba9876
I didn't read it, didn't I say they were talking about it, guess you didn't understand that either.
I asked my family while they were talking who were the sons of God because they separated the sons of God from the daughters of men. and I didn't tell you what his reply was you have made another assumption in error if his reply was. His reply was the "good people from Adam" those who still worship God.
And NO it wasn't conditioned into me from childhood. In my ADULT studying for decades there are a lot of things that the Roman and English church taught and passed down throughout the centuries I disagree with, and millions if not a billion Christians or having change of hearts on a lot of subjects taught.
Yes the nephiliums were human, human tribes mixed with those we call angels DNA. A different set of people. just as Yeshua Jesus was fully human and fully God while he walked upon the face of the Earth
The Roman and English churches picked and chose what Hebrew Books they considered Canon, took out the 14 books of the Apocrypha, and as the Hebrew / Israelites Dead Sea Scrolls shows omitted a few other books too. And these books were written before the birth of Christ.
One thing I also say too - I write what I write for those who read and they may gain a better understanding, not for those who disagree.
And I'll end with this repeating your words: I start with the Bible and I end with the Bible.
I didn't read it, didn't I say they were talking about it, guess you didn't understand that either.
I asked my family while they were talking who were the sons of God because they separated the sons of God from the daughters of men. and I didn't tell you what his reply was you have made another assumption in error if his reply was. His reply was the "good people from Adam" those who still worship God.
And NO it wasn't conditioned into me from childhood. In my ADULT studying for decades there are a lot of things that the Roman and English church taught and passed down throughout the centuries I disagree with, and millions if not a billion Christians or having change of hearts on a lot of subjects taught.
Yes the nephiliums were human, human tribes mixed with those we call angels DNA. A different set of people. just as Yeshua Jesus was fully human and fully God while he walked upon the face of the Earth
The Roman and English churches picked and chose what Hebrew Books they considered Canon, took out the 14 books of the Apocrypha, and as the Hebrew / Israelites Dead Sea Scrolls shows omitted a few other books too. And these books were written before the birth of Christ.
One thing I also say too - I write what I write for those who read and they may gain a better understanding, not for those who disagree.
And I'll end with this repeating your words: I start with the Bible and I end with the Bible.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity The Bible says in (Heb.10:5) that a body was prepared for JESUS. (Phil.2:5-8) speaks of the pre-incarnated JESUS taking human form. (Jn.1:1, 14) JESUS, as the Logos (the Word) was made flesh and dwelt among us.
So, we have many scriptures that speak of the hypostatic union of God in Christ.
Angels don't have a hypostatic union. They just appear and disappear. This is not something they can do at will. Angels always do the will of God (Ps.103:20-21). Demons don't do the will of God. They especially don't materialize as human beings, but they possess people. There is never an instance of a demon "coming into the world" or taking human form..
We can go back and forth on this, but I have already demonstrated the nephilim are humans, not by angels, but 100% human. "nephilim" is a class or group. It is not from angels and women. You still haven't demonstrated how an incorporeal being can have intimate relations with women. That touches on the nature of God. Why would God create angels with the ability to reproduce with human women (not each other?) and then judge them and their children for it? How do you not see the problem with this? The nephilim were in the earth before and after the marriages (the entire Genesis 6 scenario) and did not arise out of marriages of the sons of God and daughters of men. That's simply mythology.
There are many reason many of those books were rejected and not just blindly accepted as Scripture; some so obvious, forged, or contradictory. Personally, we really don't need any of them. What we have today is God's preserved Word that can be trusted, would you agree?
So, we have many scriptures that speak of the hypostatic union of God in Christ.
Angels don't have a hypostatic union. They just appear and disappear. This is not something they can do at will. Angels always do the will of God (Ps.103:20-21). Demons don't do the will of God. They especially don't materialize as human beings, but they possess people. There is never an instance of a demon "coming into the world" or taking human form..
We can go back and forth on this, but I have already demonstrated the nephilim are humans, not by angels, but 100% human. "nephilim" is a class or group. It is not from angels and women. You still haven't demonstrated how an incorporeal being can have intimate relations with women. That touches on the nature of God. Why would God create angels with the ability to reproduce with human women (not each other?) and then judge them and their children for it? How do you not see the problem with this? The nephilim were in the earth before and after the marriages (the entire Genesis 6 scenario) and did not arise out of marriages of the sons of God and daughters of men. That's simply mythology.
There are many reason many of those books were rejected and not just blindly accepted as Scripture; some so obvious, forged, or contradictory. Personally, we really don't need any of them. What we have today is God's preserved Word that can be trusted, would you agree?
Charity · 70-79
@dcba9876
I agree that the Bible was inspired by the Word of God also all of the books written in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Why pick and choose, all the Hebrew Scriptures of were inspired by the Word of God including those books that was rejected, which is written in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not forgeries, contradictory only to those who chose to believe a certain way concerning certain scriptures.
The body prepared for Jesus was born as humans are born of the elements of the Earth, and as written in KJV 1 John 3:2 we will be like him and see him as he is, his heavenly form is totally different than the human form he was born in two
How many times have angels appeared in human form. Paul even warns us to be aware of how we treat strangers cuz we may be entertaining an angel.
What Does the Bible Say About Angel Sent From God In Human Form? https://share.google/lYUE1Lmamumb0oaYU
And the angels in heaven does as God would have them to do - the fallen Angels didn't follow God's instructions, that is why they are referred to as fallen. That is why hell was prepared for the devil and his angels as Jesus said Matthew 25:41 and we can't leave out those spoken of in Jude 1:6
Enough, believe as you choose, as do I. I could comment more but it makes no sense to continue on, being repetitious.
One thing is for sure, theology on who the nephiliums were and other things Christians are divided on, whether right or wrong does not get them into heaven.
Take care
I agree that the Bible was inspired by the Word of God also all of the books written in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Why pick and choose, all the Hebrew Scriptures of were inspired by the Word of God including those books that was rejected, which is written in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls were not forgeries, contradictory only to those who chose to believe a certain way concerning certain scriptures.
The body prepared for Jesus was born as humans are born of the elements of the Earth, and as written in KJV 1 John 3:2 we will be like him and see him as he is, his heavenly form is totally different than the human form he was born in two
How many times have angels appeared in human form. Paul even warns us to be aware of how we treat strangers cuz we may be entertaining an angel.
What Does the Bible Say About Angel Sent From God In Human Form? https://share.google/lYUE1Lmamumb0oaYU
And the angels in heaven does as God would have them to do - the fallen Angels didn't follow God's instructions, that is why they are referred to as fallen. That is why hell was prepared for the devil and his angels as Jesus said Matthew 25:41 and we can't leave out those spoken of in Jude 1:6
Enough, believe as you choose, as do I. I could comment more but it makes no sense to continue on, being repetitious.
One thing is for sure, theology on who the nephiliums were and other things Christians are divided on, whether right or wrong does not get them into heaven.
Take care