Genesis 6: The sons of God and the Nephilim
Just did a lengthy study on this. Iron sharpens iron. What is the your viewpoint and what is the evidence of your claims?
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wrule · F
Just wonder how these giants mated with human woman
Charity · 61-69
@wrule there is an misunderstanding: the nephiliums were offspring of the angelic beings and human women.
Now whether these angelic beings actually had sexual intercourse with human females is the question. Most likely they tampered with human DNA / genes, mixing it with their DNA/genes creating their own offspring the Nephilium, through what we call today artificial insemination.
The Book of Enoch goes into a bit of detail on how the Watchers / assigned Angels to Earth did experiments with humans / animals creating monstrosities so why wouldn't they do the same with themselves and humans.
So according to the Book of Enoch there is a great possibility that some of the creatures we called mythology may have actually existed and was destroyed in the flood or however God disposed of them.
And the ODD only things are people today say they are being abducted and experimented with / and the Bible does say they were here then and also after that meaning it will continue.
Now whether these angelic beings actually had sexual intercourse with human females is the question. Most likely they tampered with human DNA / genes, mixing it with their DNA/genes creating their own offspring the Nephilium, through what we call today artificial insemination.
The Book of Enoch goes into a bit of detail on how the Watchers / assigned Angels to Earth did experiments with humans / animals creating monstrosities so why wouldn't they do the same with themselves and humans.
So according to the Book of Enoch there is a great possibility that some of the creatures we called mythology may have actually existed and was destroyed in the flood or however God disposed of them.
And the ODD only things are people today say they are being abducted and experimented with / and the Bible does say they were here then and also after that meaning it will continue.
dcba9876 · 41-45, M
@Charity Hi, Charity. I want to throw this out there and get your feedback....
As for the "nephilim"...:
It is argued that the "nephilim" were giant angel-human hybrids. It's said that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series meaning "to fall" in Hebrew, giving support to "fallen angels."
It is correct that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series "to fall." "fallen angel," however, is eisegetical. The Hebrew word is "napal/ naphal" and gives strong support to the view that men had "fallen" from God, as we see from the entire context of chapters 6-9. Interestingly, if the sons of God were fallen angels, then why are they not termed the "nephilim", if nephilim means "fallen angel"? Instead, it's referring to their supposed hybrid children.
No one today really knows who the nephilim were. Many associate them with "giants"; the book of Enoch describes them as being 3000 ells = 4000ft which is impossibly large for living creatures, even larger than some mountains. No one has ever found fossils that big, especially a global population of them. One scholar changed it to 300 ells = 450 ft, still unrealistically large. But being large doesn't seem to fit as Goliath was realistically massive and was never referred to as a nephilim. The KJV version translates it as "giants" from the influence of the Latin Vulgate's term "gigantes," (early Latin translation by Jerome), as well as the context from (Num.13:33). Its likely that the Latin was influenced by or followed the Septuagint (LXX), which as already mentioned in my "sons of God" message, is simply an interpretive translation, not an actual translation. But the context of Genesis 6 doesn't really indicate that they were giant beings at all, especially that of the book of Enoch. Contextually, nothing supports freakishly giant hybrids either. Let's say hypothetically they were giants, could the nephilim not have repented? Noah did preach for 120yrs, so they had time. We do know Christ did not die for angels, but He did die for humanity; genetic mutations included, i.e., impaired, mental, deformities, etc.
One commentator noted, "The word 'nephilim' doesn't necessarily means 'giants.' The word may be derived from the Hebrew 'naphal' meaning 'to fall upon others' (e.g. Josh.11:7/ Job 1:15/ Jer.46:16). Therefore, it could refer to those who attack others. This word could also be derived from the Hebrew 'palah,' meaning 'extraordinary,' a word used to describe Antiochus (Dan.8:24) and Johnathan (2 Sam.1:26)."
But look carefully in Genesis 6. We are told the nephilim were actually present during this entire scenario; before and after the marriages and did not arise out of them. Had (v.4) preceded (v.3), the likelihood would have increased that the nephilim were the offspring of these two unions, but the present order of these verses argues the contrary.
Another commentator, "In a parathentical phrase we are told that the nephilim were present during the scenario....Such explanatory, perhaps pedantic, asides may be compared to the phenomena in (Deut.2:10-12; 2:20-23; 3:9, 11, 13-14). Almost all modern versions of the Bible put these five passages in parentheses. The sentence structure and content of Genesis 6:4 interrupt the flow of the narrative, which has led many scholars—both Jewish and Christian—to view this verse as a parenthetical or explanatory note inserted by Moses to clarify who these 'sons of God' and their offspring were."
That the nephilim reappear in (Num.13) presents problems also. Some claim this is a second incursion of angelic sex inserted into the text, but this is mere conjecture. Others claim "the nephilim name lives on" which is easily dismissed as a desperate attempt to save the viewpoint. Still, if the angels in Genesis 6 are the angels in (2 Pt.2:4) that are locked up, the how did the nephilim reappear in Numbers 13? If the angels were having sexual relations with women before and after the flood, then there's nothing stopping them from having sexual relations with women today, but this is not possible.
The Book of Numbers uses "nephilim" to describe human parents (sons of Anak; Num.13:33). If "nephilim" denotes offspring of human parents in (Num.13), then why not in (Gen.6:4), especially when the context points to humanity?
Another commentator, "Also, a theological problem presents itself for the fallen angel view if we look at the Anakites (descendants of Anak), descendants of the nephilim according to (Num.13:33). The Anakites we're not completely wiped out (Josh.11:22). Thus, The Bible never records their line ending and no reason to assume the descendants of Anak are still not living today. In fact, they may have interbred with many other people groups since then [but we don't see giants today as supposed by Gen.6/ Num.13]. Being sons of Anak also shows they can exist without being the sexual union of the "sons of God."
Therefore, the nephilim can not to be identified as the offspring of the sons of God. They were already present prior to their offspring.
What say you?
As for the "nephilim"...:
It is argued that the "nephilim" were giant angel-human hybrids. It's said that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series meaning "to fall" in Hebrew, giving support to "fallen angels."
It is correct that the word "nephilim" is related to the verb series "to fall." "fallen angel," however, is eisegetical. The Hebrew word is "napal/ naphal" and gives strong support to the view that men had "fallen" from God, as we see from the entire context of chapters 6-9. Interestingly, if the sons of God were fallen angels, then why are they not termed the "nephilim", if nephilim means "fallen angel"? Instead, it's referring to their supposed hybrid children.
No one today really knows who the nephilim were. Many associate them with "giants"; the book of Enoch describes them as being 3000 ells = 4000ft which is impossibly large for living creatures, even larger than some mountains. No one has ever found fossils that big, especially a global population of them. One scholar changed it to 300 ells = 450 ft, still unrealistically large. But being large doesn't seem to fit as Goliath was realistically massive and was never referred to as a nephilim. The KJV version translates it as "giants" from the influence of the Latin Vulgate's term "gigantes," (early Latin translation by Jerome), as well as the context from (Num.13:33). Its likely that the Latin was influenced by or followed the Septuagint (LXX), which as already mentioned in my "sons of God" message, is simply an interpretive translation, not an actual translation. But the context of Genesis 6 doesn't really indicate that they were giant beings at all, especially that of the book of Enoch. Contextually, nothing supports freakishly giant hybrids either. Let's say hypothetically they were giants, could the nephilim not have repented? Noah did preach for 120yrs, so they had time. We do know Christ did not die for angels, but He did die for humanity; genetic mutations included, i.e., impaired, mental, deformities, etc.
One commentator noted, "The word 'nephilim' doesn't necessarily means 'giants.' The word may be derived from the Hebrew 'naphal' meaning 'to fall upon others' (e.g. Josh.11:7/ Job 1:15/ Jer.46:16). Therefore, it could refer to those who attack others. This word could also be derived from the Hebrew 'palah,' meaning 'extraordinary,' a word used to describe Antiochus (Dan.8:24) and Johnathan (2 Sam.1:26)."
But look carefully in Genesis 6. We are told the nephilim were actually present during this entire scenario; before and after the marriages and did not arise out of them. Had (v.4) preceded (v.3), the likelihood would have increased that the nephilim were the offspring of these two unions, but the present order of these verses argues the contrary.
Another commentator, "In a parathentical phrase we are told that the nephilim were present during the scenario....Such explanatory, perhaps pedantic, asides may be compared to the phenomena in (Deut.2:10-12; 2:20-23; 3:9, 11, 13-14). Almost all modern versions of the Bible put these five passages in parentheses. The sentence structure and content of Genesis 6:4 interrupt the flow of the narrative, which has led many scholars—both Jewish and Christian—to view this verse as a parenthetical or explanatory note inserted by Moses to clarify who these 'sons of God' and their offspring were."
That the nephilim reappear in (Num.13) presents problems also. Some claim this is a second incursion of angelic sex inserted into the text, but this is mere conjecture. Others claim "the nephilim name lives on" which is easily dismissed as a desperate attempt to save the viewpoint. Still, if the angels in Genesis 6 are the angels in (2 Pt.2:4) that are locked up, the how did the nephilim reappear in Numbers 13? If the angels were having sexual relations with women before and after the flood, then there's nothing stopping them from having sexual relations with women today, but this is not possible.
The Book of Numbers uses "nephilim" to describe human parents (sons of Anak; Num.13:33). If "nephilim" denotes offspring of human parents in (Num.13), then why not in (Gen.6:4), especially when the context points to humanity?
Another commentator, "Also, a theological problem presents itself for the fallen angel view if we look at the Anakites (descendants of Anak), descendants of the nephilim according to (Num.13:33). The Anakites we're not completely wiped out (Josh.11:22). Thus, The Bible never records their line ending and no reason to assume the descendants of Anak are still not living today. In fact, they may have interbred with many other people groups since then [but we don't see giants today as supposed by Gen.6/ Num.13]. Being sons of Anak also shows they can exist without being the sexual union of the "sons of God."
Therefore, the nephilim can not to be identified as the offspring of the sons of God. They were already present prior to their offspring.
What say you?
Charity · 61-69
@dcba9876
1) fallen / naphal a word which applies to Angels - their offspring - humans. Not specifically to Angels.
Strong's Hebrew: 5307. נָפַל (naphal) -- To fall, to lie, to be cast down, to fail https://share.google/pk2SqETdBTJrWsHy1
2) Nephilium is defined as to Giants also / one and the same.
Strong's Hebrew: 5303. נְפִילִים (Nephilim) -- Giants https://share.google/CMRZhD8IiXqweN3Oo
3) There is strong a possibility that in the Book of Enoch whosoever wrote it actually meant 40 cubits. Which would make them 59' tall. Now if herds of dinosaurs can exist on this Earth 60 feet tall there is a strong possibility genetic splicing mixing DNA could produce such humans. And it's a strong possibility much of that DNA is still here
The sons of Anak in which Goliath was one, who were The offspring of the Giants / Nephilims. Goliath 6 cubits and a span, close to 10 ft tall. And we do have people from time to time that are extremely tall, 8 ft 11 in is the record.
Numbers 13:33 / Deuteronomy 9:2 / Joshua 12:4 refers to the Giants. And in Numbers 13:33 in the Hebrew Bible the word nephilims is used
Numbers 13:33 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/rDl5x4ivg3yQ39463
Deuteronomy 9:2 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/RuswUYe9W8HSQkEBE
3) No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s.
4) As it was in the days of Noah social would be in the coming of the Son of Man. And it is clear in Genesis 6 when it says "and after that", the mixing was still being done but not openly and widely abundantly. In the days of Noah humans knew exactly what they were doing and it's going to be that way again they will be deliberately mixing their genes with Angela genes before the end of time.
I have touched on all you wrote of that I care to touch on, you see I am not trying to change your views. I as well as millions of others Christians believe differently. And as time continues to pass many Christians are beginning to believe as I do. Throughout much my life most ministers before the 1970s taught that the sons of God was referring to Seth. The thing is and most of the Old Testament when the sons of God was reverted to it was referring to those we call angelic beings.
Food for thought : You see the Canaanites served, worshiped Elohim / El. Melchizedek was a Canaanite, king of Salem and he was the servant of the most high God whom the Hebrews through Abraham began to serve and was chosen to be by Elohim to be his chosen people. The name of the city did not change until David changed it to Jeru-salem almost 2,000 years later. And the Canaanites taught that Elohim had 70 sons, not Angels Angels were the servants. So those 70 sons could be the ones that are being spoken of in Genesis 6.
I don't know ancient Hebrew nor does anyone alive, and even those who translated scriptures didn't know the ancient Hebrew languages and the meanings of their words. Words change over thousands of years some cease to exist. now those who are writing / translating scripture, even from the Dead Sea Scrolls are translating Nephiliums to mean Giants / the sons of Anak / the offspring of the Nephilium. why don't you find these translators and voice your disagreements.
After all the only thing that we can go by is what they put in front of us already, it's the teachings that has been passed down is the only thing we can use. Unless you come from 4,000 years ago no one knows the ancient Hebrew language.
1) fallen / naphal a word which applies to Angels - their offspring - humans. Not specifically to Angels.
Strong's Hebrew: 5307. נָפַל (naphal) -- To fall, to lie, to be cast down, to fail https://share.google/pk2SqETdBTJrWsHy1
2) Nephilium is defined as to Giants also / one and the same.
Strong's Hebrew: 5303. נְפִילִים (Nephilim) -- Giants https://share.google/CMRZhD8IiXqweN3Oo
3) There is strong a possibility that in the Book of Enoch whosoever wrote it actually meant 40 cubits. Which would make them 59' tall. Now if herds of dinosaurs can exist on this Earth 60 feet tall there is a strong possibility genetic splicing mixing DNA could produce such humans. And it's a strong possibility much of that DNA is still here
The sons of Anak in which Goliath was one, who were The offspring of the Giants / Nephilims. Goliath 6 cubits and a span, close to 10 ft tall. And we do have people from time to time that are extremely tall, 8 ft 11 in is the record.
Numbers 13:33 / Deuteronomy 9:2 / Joshua 12:4 refers to the Giants. And in Numbers 13:33 in the Hebrew Bible the word nephilims is used
Numbers 13:33 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/rDl5x4ivg3yQ39463
Deuteronomy 9:2 Hebrew Text Analysis https://share.google/RuswUYe9W8HSQkEBE
3) No evidence of Giants found / evidence of dinosaurs may have been seen by the ancients, but they knew truths but not recognized and studied and recorded until these modern times and they are still finding fossils. So who's to say at some point they won't discover if you put human fossil. Then there is always the possibility that God took them. Their place is not earth, and they are being held somewhere and his kingdoms, with an s.
4) As it was in the days of Noah social would be in the coming of the Son of Man. And it is clear in Genesis 6 when it says "and after that", the mixing was still being done but not openly and widely abundantly. In the days of Noah humans knew exactly what they were doing and it's going to be that way again they will be deliberately mixing their genes with Angela genes before the end of time.
I have touched on all you wrote of that I care to touch on, you see I am not trying to change your views. I as well as millions of others Christians believe differently. And as time continues to pass many Christians are beginning to believe as I do. Throughout much my life most ministers before the 1970s taught that the sons of God was referring to Seth. The thing is and most of the Old Testament when the sons of God was reverted to it was referring to those we call angelic beings.
Food for thought : You see the Canaanites served, worshiped Elohim / El. Melchizedek was a Canaanite, king of Salem and he was the servant of the most high God whom the Hebrews through Abraham began to serve and was chosen to be by Elohim to be his chosen people. The name of the city did not change until David changed it to Jeru-salem almost 2,000 years later. And the Canaanites taught that Elohim had 70 sons, not Angels Angels were the servants. So those 70 sons could be the ones that are being spoken of in Genesis 6.
I don't know ancient Hebrew nor does anyone alive, and even those who translated scriptures didn't know the ancient Hebrew languages and the meanings of their words. Words change over thousands of years some cease to exist. now those who are writing / translating scripture, even from the Dead Sea Scrolls are translating Nephiliums to mean Giants / the sons of Anak / the offspring of the Nephilium. why don't you find these translators and voice your disagreements.
After all the only thing that we can go by is what they put in front of us already, it's the teachings that has been passed down is the only thing we can use. Unless you come from 4,000 years ago no one knows the ancient Hebrew language.