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Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
There is no passage that says that Jesus is God. They claim that "he is the son of God." IOWs, that his teachings mirror God's without deviation.
Jesus is described as being a priest =
Hebrews 2:17 (CEV) = "He had to be one of us, so he could serve God as our merciful and faithful high priest and sacrifice himself for the forgiveness of our sins."
Hebrews 3:1 (CEV) = "My friends, God has chosen you to be his holy people. So think about Jesus, the one we call our apostle and high priest!"
Hebrews 4:14 (CEV) = "We have a great high priest, who has gone into heaven, and he is Jesus the Son of God. This is why we must hold on to what we have said about him."
Hebrews 4:15 (ERV) = "Jesus, our high priest, is able to understand our weaknesses. When Jesus lived on earth, he was tempted in every way. He was tempted in the same ways we are tempted, but he never sinned."
Hebrews 5:5 (NKJV) ="A Priest Forever
So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”
Hebrews 5:6 (NKJV) = "As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”;
Hebrews 5:10 (NJKV) = called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,”
Hebrews 6:20 (NKJV) = "where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews chapter 7 (MSG) explains the purpose of Jesus being the new and eternal high priest. It's a mouthful so a couple of versions might clarify it =
It continues =
Hebrews 8:1-2 (TLB) = "8 What we are saying is this: Christ, whose priesthood we have just described, is our High Priest and is in heaven at the place of greatest honor next to God himself. 2 He ministers in the temple in heaven, the true place of worship built by the Lord and not by human hands."
You can suffer through the other chapters of Hebrews at your convenience.
This seems to me a dishonest and argumentative response to a clear doctrinal article.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest.
There is no passage that says that Jesus is God. They claim that "he is the son of God." IOWs, that his teachings mirror God's without deviation.
Jesus is described as being a priest =
Hebrews 2:17 (CEV) = "He had to be one of us, so he could serve God as our merciful and faithful high priest and sacrifice himself for the forgiveness of our sins."
Hebrews 3:1 (CEV) = "My friends, God has chosen you to be his holy people. So think about Jesus, the one we call our apostle and high priest!"
Hebrews 4:14 (CEV) = "We have a great high priest, who has gone into heaven, and he is Jesus the Son of God. This is why we must hold on to what we have said about him."
Hebrews 4:15 (ERV) = "Jesus, our high priest, is able to understand our weaknesses. When Jesus lived on earth, he was tempted in every way. He was tempted in the same ways we are tempted, but he never sinned."
Hebrews 5:5 (NKJV) ="A Priest Forever
So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”
Hebrews 5:6 (NKJV) = "As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek”;
Hebrews 5:10 (NJKV) = called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,”
Hebrews 6:20 (NKJV) = "where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."
Hebrews chapter 7 (MSG) explains the purpose of Jesus being the new and eternal high priest. It's a mouthful so a couple of versions might clarify it =
It continues =
Hebrews 8:1-2 (TLB) = "8 What we are saying is this: Christ, whose priesthood we have just described, is our High Priest and is in heaven at the place of greatest honor next to God himself. 2 He ministers in the temple in heaven, the true place of worship built by the Lord and not by human hands."
You can suffer through the other chapters of Hebrews at your convenience.
@Diotrephes
lol come on, i saw you use the quote function in another post recently. 😆
Aaaaanyway. Yup, as with many things, there is contradiction but this should not prevent you from answer my question if you are interested in honest discourse so i will put it to you again with hope that this time you'll show me the respect of answering directly.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and/or the son of god (depending on the sect of Christianity) and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest this time. Answer me as if you're trying to accurately convey the information, not win an internet fight.
lol come on, i saw you use the quote function in another post recently. 😆
Aaaaanyway. Yup, as with many things, there is contradiction but this should not prevent you from answer my question if you are interested in honest discourse so i will put it to you again with hope that this time you'll show me the respect of answering directly.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and/or the son of god (depending on the sect of Christianity) and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest this time. Answer me as if you're trying to accurately convey the information, not win an internet fight.
TexasDude · 31-35, M
@Diotrephes Jesus also accepted worship, said He was one with the Father, spoke of how He would one day judge the world...it's very clear that He was God and was upfront about it
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
Sorry for the typos. Sometimes my keyboard seems defective and other times it seems to be a website problem. I try to catch the obvious ones before posting.
lol come on, i saw you use the quote function in another post recently. 😆
Sorry for the typos. Sometimes my keyboard seems defective and other times it seems to be a website problem. I try to catch the obvious ones before posting.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@TexasDude
The Jesus character was an egotistical narcissist who thought he was special but he was just a lying hypocrite who never did anything godly. The book of Hebrews explains why he was created by the conmen. They wanted to start their own religion for their own purposes. They were successful because billions of people have bought it without a second thought.
Jesus also accepted worship, said He was one with the Father, spoke of how He would one day judge the world...it's very clear that He was God and was upfront about it
The Jesus character was an egotistical narcissist who thought he was special but he was just a lying hypocrite who never did anything godly. The book of Hebrews explains why he was created by the conmen. They wanted to start their own religion for their own purposes. They were successful because billions of people have bought it without a second thought.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
I base my opinions on what is written in the biblical fairytale called the Bible.
The book of Revelation describes what happens during the end times and when the Jesus character returns. It describes how the old heven and the old Earth cease to exist and a new Earth and a new heaven is created. The new heaven is a 1,500 mile-sided golden cube called New Jerusalem. That should tell you right away that Gentiles won't be included. So, at 1,500 miles tall, the golden cube in six times the altitude of the International Space Station. Imagine climbing the stairs in that place.
Revelation 21:27 (CEV) = "27 But nothing unworthy will be allowed to enter. No one who is dirty-minded or who tells lies will be there. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life[a] will be in the city."
Revelation 22:14-15 (CEV) = "14 God will bless all who have washed their robes. They will each have the right to eat fruit from the tree that gives life, and they can enter the gates of the city. 15 But outside the city will be dogs, witches, immoral people, murderers, idol worshipers, and everyone who loves to tell lies and do wrong."
Reading those chapters and Revelation 20:15 (CEV) = "15 Anyone whose name wasn't written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
says to me that people will be judged by their works. Those who don't make the grade will be tossed into the lake of fire, which is the second death. They cease to exist.
A person can be evil but still have his name written in the book of life, meaning he will get eternal life but won't be able to get into the golden cube where God lives. So, maybe the people described in Revelation 22:15 did do God's will by doing evil acts and will be rewarded with eternal life. After all, there are stories in the Bible about God doing such evil things himself and he has evil angels who do such things by his command.
The botton line is that a person can be "good" but get tossed into the lake of fire and a person can be rotten and get eternal life if he did God's will. It's in line with the passages about certain ethnic groups being barred for ten generations because of what their ancestors did; not for what they did. And, if you are physically defective, you will also be barred although you have no control over your ancestry or over your physical condition.
Aaaaanyway. Yup, as with many things, there is contradiction but this should not prevent you from answer my question if you are interested in honest discourse so i will put it to you again with hope that this time you'll show me the respect of answering directly.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and/or the son of god (depending on the sect of Christianity) and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest this time. Answer me as if you're trying to accurately convey the information, not win an internet fight.
You'll agree and be familiar with the doctrine that in order to achieve forgiveness for sin and be taken into heaven on the day of Judgement, humans must believe that Jesus is god and/or the son of god (depending on the sect of Christianity) and was the perfect lamb whose blood paid for their sin.
Given that, do you honestly and earnestly think that the meaning of John 3:16 is that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life but that it will not be in heaven?
If you can honestly answer "yes" to that question, what do you think is meant to be the virtue and benefit of believing in Jesus as described by that passage?
Be honest this time. Answer me as if you're trying to accurately convey the information, not win an internet fight.
I base my opinions on what is written in the biblical fairytale called the Bible.
The book of Revelation describes what happens during the end times and when the Jesus character returns. It describes how the old heven and the old Earth cease to exist and a new Earth and a new heaven is created. The new heaven is a 1,500 mile-sided golden cube called New Jerusalem. That should tell you right away that Gentiles won't be included. So, at 1,500 miles tall, the golden cube in six times the altitude of the International Space Station. Imagine climbing the stairs in that place.
Revelation 21:27 (CEV) = "27 But nothing unworthy will be allowed to enter. No one who is dirty-minded or who tells lies will be there. Only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life[a] will be in the city."
Revelation 22:14-15 (CEV) = "14 God will bless all who have washed their robes. They will each have the right to eat fruit from the tree that gives life, and they can enter the gates of the city. 15 But outside the city will be dogs, witches, immoral people, murderers, idol worshipers, and everyone who loves to tell lies and do wrong."
Reading those chapters and Revelation 20:15 (CEV) = "15 Anyone whose name wasn't written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
says to me that people will be judged by their works. Those who don't make the grade will be tossed into the lake of fire, which is the second death. They cease to exist.
A person can be evil but still have his name written in the book of life, meaning he will get eternal life but won't be able to get into the golden cube where God lives. So, maybe the people described in Revelation 22:15 did do God's will by doing evil acts and will be rewarded with eternal life. After all, there are stories in the Bible about God doing such evil things himself and he has evil angels who do such things by his command.
The botton line is that a person can be "good" but get tossed into the lake of fire and a person can be rotten and get eternal life if he did God's will. It's in line with the passages about certain ethnic groups being barred for ten generations because of what their ancestors did; not for what they did. And, if you are physically defective, you will also be barred although you have no control over your ancestry or over your physical condition.
@Diotrephes
Yup.
I'm not here to defend the character of god. Remember what we're talking about here: You said " There are no Bible verses that say that women and children go to heaven. If you find one, be sure to post it for our education."
I gave you John 3:16 which says that anyone who believes in the son will have eternal life.
Even in your own post there you note that the unworthy will suffer the second death and cease to exist. Therefor this passage indeed refers to eternal life in the kingdom heaven and "everyone" unequivocally includes women and children.
I know you were just trying to take a shot at the Bible, which is fine, i do it all the time. But you have to read it with an honest approach to understanding what the author intended.
You say you base your opinion on what is actually written in the bible.
So swear to me on whatever you consider worth swearing on that when you read "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" you honestly believe the intent behind that verse was not talking about entering heaven and that you honestly believe that the silent addendum to "whoever believes" was intended to be "but not women and children".
The botton line is that a person can be "good" but get tossed into the lake of fire and a person can be rotten and get eternal life if he did God's will.
Yup.
I'm not here to defend the character of god. Remember what we're talking about here: You said " There are no Bible verses that say that women and children go to heaven. If you find one, be sure to post it for our education."
I gave you John 3:16 which says that anyone who believes in the son will have eternal life.
Even in your own post there you note that the unworthy will suffer the second death and cease to exist. Therefor this passage indeed refers to eternal life in the kingdom heaven and "everyone" unequivocally includes women and children.
I know you were just trying to take a shot at the Bible, which is fine, i do it all the time. But you have to read it with an honest approach to understanding what the author intended.
You say you base your opinion on what is actually written in the bible.
So swear to me on whatever you consider worth swearing on that when you read "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" you honestly believe the intent behind that verse was not talking about entering heaven and that you honestly believe that the silent addendum to "whoever believes" was intended to be "but not women and children".
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
The fairytale plainly says that the golden cube is surrounded by a high wall with twelve gates that prevent "bad" people from getting in although they have eternal life. Therefore, the conclusion is that a person can be rotten but still have eternal life. The fairytale gave some examples. A person could have been "good" but if the person's name wasn't written into the book of life, the person will get tossed into the lake of fire, the second death.
Other religions have far better scenarios for what the afterlife is like. The biblical one sucks. But if you believe in it, enjoy it. I don't. I am not trying to convince you that my opinion is correct, only that it is based upon what the fairytale says the way I read and understand it.
BTW, Jesus said that a person should never swear an oath about anything.
Matthew 5:33-37 (NKJV) = 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of [a]old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [b]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."
So, the fact that you want to swear oaths indicate that you don't really believe in Jesus. That might be enough to prevent you from getting eternal life.
So swear to me on whatever you consider worth swearing on that when you read "whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" you honestly believe the intent behind that verse was not talking about entering heaven and that you honestly believe that the silent addendum to "whoever believes" was intended to be "but not women and children".
The fairytale plainly says that the golden cube is surrounded by a high wall with twelve gates that prevent "bad" people from getting in although they have eternal life. Therefore, the conclusion is that a person can be rotten but still have eternal life. The fairytale gave some examples. A person could have been "good" but if the person's name wasn't written into the book of life, the person will get tossed into the lake of fire, the second death.
Other religions have far better scenarios for what the afterlife is like. The biblical one sucks. But if you believe in it, enjoy it. I don't. I am not trying to convince you that my opinion is correct, only that it is based upon what the fairytale says the way I read and understand it.
BTW, Jesus said that a person should never swear an oath about anything.
Matthew 5:33-37 (NKJV) = 33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of [a]old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let [b]your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one."
So, the fact that you want to swear oaths indicate that you don't really believe in Jesus. That might be enough to prevent you from getting eternal life.
@Diotrephes
...in which case they will not have eternal life, yes? This would then exclude them from the description of salvation under John 3:16, yes?
And that's what you conclude to be the meaning of John 3:16? You think it's talking about people who believe in Jesus and gain eternal life but not salvation?
the person will get tossed into the lake of fire, the second death.
...in which case they will not have eternal life, yes? This would then exclude them from the description of salvation under John 3:16, yes?
Therefore, the conclusion is that a person can be rotten but still have eternal life
And that's what you conclude to be the meaning of John 3:16? You think it's talking about people who believe in Jesus and gain eternal life but not salvation?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
And that's what you conclude to be the meaning of John 3:16? You think it's talking about people who believe in Jesus and gain eternal life but not salvation?
Jesus told his apostles that they would sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. He never had any dialogue about judging Gentiles. And the golden cube is all about the Jews, which is why it is called New Jerusalem and not a name that would indicate that it is for everyone. Remember, in the end the Gentiles are supposed to end up as slaves to the Jews (Isaiah 14:1-2). Do you really want to be a slave for all eternity?@Diotrephes
I don't think you have a terribly good biblical foundation for making the claim that gentiles are not covered under the lamb of god
Paul who was Saul is specifically an Apostle who ministered to the Gentiles " 1 Timothy 2:7For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth")
I think also that you have no good foundation for the notion that they are intended to be slaves in heaven Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus".)
But let's put that aside for the moment and just focus on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
I don't think you have a terribly good biblical foundation for making the claim that gentiles are not covered under the lamb of god
Paul who was Saul is specifically an Apostle who ministered to the Gentiles " 1 Timothy 2:7For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth")
I think also that you have no good foundation for the notion that they are intended to be slaves in heaven Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus".)
But let's put that aside for the moment and just focus on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
It's a fairytale so if you want them to be covered, they are.
But let's put that aside for the moment and just focus on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
It's a fairytale so if you want them to be covered, they are.
@Diotrephes
Well you said you're basing your opinion on what the Bible says. In that context, what is your answer to my question?
Well you said you're basing your opinion on what the Bible says. In that context, what is your answer to my question?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
According to the fairytale, only men from the twelve tribes of Israel count.
In religions where women get to paradise they are just sexual slaves to the men. There are no marriages in the golden cube.
The interesting thing about religions is that women are always the first converts. But they never get rewarded.
Well you said you're basing your opinion on what the Bible says. In that context, what is your answer to my question?
According to the fairytale, only men from the twelve tribes of Israel count.
In religions where women get to paradise they are just sexual slaves to the men. There are no marriages in the golden cube.
The interesting thing about religions is that women are always the first converts. But they never get rewarded.
@Diotrephes
You didn't answer my question. Answer it this time: Focusing on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
You didn't answer my question. Answer it this time: Focusing on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
This is the perfect opportunity for you to do some field research and then you can write a paper about your findings. So, ask 1,000 random Jewish women if they are covered under John 3:16. When you finish your research be sure to let us know the results. But be honest.
You didn't answer my question. Answer it this time: Focusing on the Israelite women and children. Are they or are they not covered under John 3:16? If not, why not?
This is the perfect opportunity for you to do some field research and then you can write a paper about your findings. So, ask 1,000 random Jewish women if they are covered under John 3:16. When you finish your research be sure to let us know the results. But be honest.
@Diotrephes
....your response to a direct question is " Go do an extensive research survey and write a paper" ?
Really?
Tell you what, if i ever have the resources and time do organize that, i will.
Until then, why don't you give me an honest answer to that question given your reading of the Bible.
You made the claim that the Bible says nothing about women and children going to heaven. I argue that John 3:16 covers women and children.
Do you or do you not have an argument as to why it does not?
....your response to a direct question is " Go do an extensive research survey and write a paper" ?
Really?
Tell you what, if i ever have the resources and time do organize that, i will.
Until then, why don't you give me an honest answer to that question given your reading of the Bible.
You made the claim that the Bible says nothing about women and children going to heaven. I argue that John 3:16 covers women and children.
Do you or do you not have an argument as to why it does not?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
The simple answer is that if the verse covers women and children it would plainly say so. As for children, remember that a person has to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God with all all his heart in order to be baptized (Acts 8:36-37). Some Bible versions omit verse 37 = https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%208:37
Remember what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (NKJV) = "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Threfore, a person must believe and be baptized. Are children really capable of having rational beliefs?
To be fair, there is a verse that clearly says that women were also baptized =
Acts 8:12 (NKJV) = "But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized."
If you were more familar with the Bible you could have cited those verses in support of your argument that women will be saved.
There is no verse that says that children were baptized. Be sure to let me know if you find one.
....your response to a direct question is " Go do an extensive research survey and write a paper" ?
Really?
Tell you what, if i ever have the resources and time do organize that, i will.
Until then, why don't you give me an honest answer to that question given your reading of the Bible.
You made the claim that the Bible says nothing about women and children going to heaven. I argue that John 3:16 covers women and children.
Do you or do you not have an argument as to why it does not?
Really?
Tell you what, if i ever have the resources and time do organize that, i will.
Until then, why don't you give me an honest answer to that question given your reading of the Bible.
You made the claim that the Bible says nothing about women and children going to heaven. I argue that John 3:16 covers women and children.
Do you or do you not have an argument as to why it does not?
The simple answer is that if the verse covers women and children it would plainly say so. As for children, remember that a person has to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God with all all his heart in order to be baptized (Acts 8:36-37). Some Bible versions omit verse 37 = https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts%208:37
Remember what Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (NKJV) = "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Threfore, a person must believe and be baptized. Are children really capable of having rational beliefs?
To be fair, there is a verse that clearly says that women were also baptized =
Acts 8:12 (NKJV) = "But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized."
If you were more familar with the Bible you could have cited those verses in support of your argument that women will be saved.
There is no verse that says that children were baptized. Be sure to let me know if you find one.
@Diotrephes
So your argument is that is a verse which appears to cover everyone does not cover everyone if they are not specifically mentioned.
Got it.
To be fair, there is a verse that clearly says that women were also baptized.
Acts 8:12
Cool, so even under the argument that water baptism is requisite to salvation (and Mark says whoever doesn't believe won't be saved, not whoever wasn't baptized ), you have evidence that women are included.....so you actually have no biblical objection to the idea women are covered under the sacrifice of and belief in Jesus.
Do you have anything to add?
The simple answer is that if the verse covers women and children it would plainly say so.
So your argument is that is a verse which appears to cover everyone does not cover everyone if they are not specifically mentioned.
Got it.
To be fair, there is a verse that clearly says that women were also baptized.
Acts 8:12
Cool, so even under the argument that water baptism is requisite to salvation (and Mark says whoever doesn't believe won't be saved, not whoever wasn't baptized ), you have evidence that women are included.....so you actually have no biblical objection to the idea women are covered under the sacrifice of and belief in Jesus.
Do you have anything to add?
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
Remember, the Jews practiced the baptism rite before Christians adopted it. The Christians changed the focus.
The bottom line is that if a person believes in the Bible and in the Jewish God and in the Jewish high priest Jesus, the person should simply convert to Judaism instead of being a heretic Christian.
Do you have anything to add?
Remember, the Jews practiced the baptism rite before Christians adopted it. The Christians changed the focus.
The bottom line is that if a person believes in the Bible and in the Jewish God and in the Jewish high priest Jesus, the person should simply convert to Judaism instead of being a heretic Christian.
@Diotrephes
Ok.
I'll hope you remember this conversation before you repeat the claim that the Bible doesn't give recourse for women and children to enter heaven.
Ok.
I'll hope you remember this conversation before you repeat the claim that the Bible doesn't give recourse for women and children to enter heaven.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@Pikachu
As I've said before. there are no verses that say that children will enter the golden cube.
The passage about women getting baptized deals with the Jewish ritual for converts. Remember how Jesus got baptized? Paul continued the ritual as part of Christianity but dropped the circumcision ritual, which illustrates the Tenth Commandment =
Exodus 34:26 (ERV) = “Never cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
Exodus 34:26 has two sentences. The first one is the Ninth Commandment.
So, although they dropped one ritual for the Tenth Commandment, they kept countless others but people stopped following them.
Ok.
I'll hope you remember this conversation before you repeat the claim that the Bible doesn't give recourse for women and children to enter heaven.
I'll hope you remember this conversation before you repeat the claim that the Bible doesn't give recourse for women and children to enter heaven.
As I've said before. there are no verses that say that children will enter the golden cube.
The passage about women getting baptized deals with the Jewish ritual for converts. Remember how Jesus got baptized? Paul continued the ritual as part of Christianity but dropped the circumcision ritual, which illustrates the Tenth Commandment =
Exodus 34:26 (ERV) = “Never cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
Exodus 34:26 has two sentences. The first one is the Ninth Commandment.
So, although they dropped one ritual for the Tenth Commandment, they kept countless others but people stopped following them.