How can we take the Bible as an unchanging guide to morality when it condones slavery?

@JimboSaturn

There a a lot of pretty messed up stories in the bible cataloguing the actions and orders of the god character which should give a reasonable person pause.

@Pikachu 19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the Lord against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”


Verse 6 is my favourite :)

@JimboSaturn

And then of course later those two daughters sleep with Lot to father children lol.

And this story is actually repeated more gruesomely in Judges 19-21 where a father offers his daughters up again to be raped and the Levite priest actually pushes his concubine out the door where she is raped all night until she dies.

@Pikachu Yep a variation on the same story. It illustrates the the Bible was written by illiterate, iron-age, war-like, patriarchal, goat herders in the middle east.

@Pikachu They will rebut that it is not to be taken literally. But other parts they like are.

@Pikachu I actually forgot about the incest part! lol

@JimboSaturn

That is the general MO. Or to attempt to argue how it was actually justified.

@JimboSaturn That Lot character was a real bastard. He disowned his own children to protect some murderous thugs. He didn't want the townsmen to screw the strangers but he ended up screwing his own daughters. He was a disgusting character, almost as evil as that scummy Abraham was.

From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.

@Diotrephes What makes me laugh is the immaturity of the sexuality in it. As if all the gay men noticed the angels and gave a wink to each other and aggregated at Lot's house to fuck them! What kind of crazy story is that?

@Diotrephes

Oh no, you are mistaken. He was the one righteous man in Sodom and Gomorrah🤭

@JimboSaturn
There are lots (pun!) of ways to look at the story. But in the fairytale, angels are metaphors for the emperor's diplomats or priests. When people insulted them, they were insulting the emperor and that was a big no-no because the emperor was the God. When the townsmen wanted to screw the "angels" they were rejecting the emperor (God) and committing adultery a violation of the First Commandment (Exodus 34:11-16).

Remember, all of the stories in the Old & New Testaments illustrate one or more of the real Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:11-26). The miracles are based on Exodus 34:10, which is why there aren't any today.

So, when you read a story you should analyze it to determine which of the real Ten Commandments the story illustrates. As Exodus 34:14 (ERV) says = "14 Don’t worship any other god. I am Yahweh Kanah—the jealous Lord. That is my name. I hate for my people to worship other gods."

Therefore, in order to really keep the commandment, you must toss everyone overboard if they come before your worship of "God" in any way. It would be like if you saw a priest, bishop, pope, minister, or a rabbi screwing your toddler daughter. Since they are agents of God it would be a violation of the First Commandment to rat them out or to blow their brains out. So, that is why Lot did what he did, although he was a bastard for doing it.

Always remember, the Bible does not teach morality. It teaches complete obedience and total loyalty.

From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.

@Diotrephes I don't think its that nuanced. Its just a bunch of patriarchal homophobia. Assuming gay men are obsessed with anal sex (sodomy) and are going to respond to the stimulati of hot angels. Zero lessons to be learned from this horrible story. Lots daughters get Lot drunk in later years and fuck him incestuously to keep their line alive.
This is the sexual landscape of a teenager

@JimboSaturn
As I said, you can look at it from a variety of angles. But if you don't look at the stories from a real Ten Commandment pov, it is very difficult to understand what the stories are really about.

From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.