How can we take the Bible as an unchanging guide to morality when it condones slavery?
You can murder men and women and keep the virgin girls as your slaves. You can beat them to within an inch of their life and suffer no consequence. You can keep them forever and pass them on to your children as your property.
The bible says this is ok...and we all know it's not. So how can you trust it as a moral guide?
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Slavery is not a problem if you have a good Master / Owner. Many slaves owned by good masters would never dream of being free because their masters looked after them and their families. “Therefore,” Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:20, because you were bought with a price and are not your own, "glorify God in your body. Exclusive ownership implies complete submission. If we belong to Christ—if He owns us—then the rule of our lives is not our will, but His will—our Master’s will. Elsewhere Paul also say to believers so clearly: “You are not your own. You have been bought with a price” (1 Cor. 6:19–20). Christians do not exist in untethered autonomy. We are not the masters of our fate nor the captains of our souls. We were bought with a price, and so we belong to the One who has paid that price. I, for one, gladly submit to being a slave of God. He rescued me, cleansed me, provide for me and protects me. And He loves me and mean me no harm. Why on earth should I not want to remain his property and slave?
Would you want your daughter or son or mother or brother to be onwed as property by a "good master"?
Christians do not exist in untethered autonomy
lol there's a huge difference between owing someone allegiance and being their property. So you submit to being a slave of god if that floats your boat. Would you submit to being the slave of a good human master?
@Pikachu What I was illustrating is that slavery wasn't a problem in ancient times providing the slave had a good master. The person who started this thread obviously has some beef with God and are cherry-picking issues way back then to somehow make his point. And no, I would not like my children to be owned by an earthly twat who thinks he can do as he pleases with people whether he is good or bad. The other thing is that Jesus came to "set the captives free" which was a comparison to the slaves in Egypt. There was a time before Christ and times after Christ. There is a big difference in the slave ownership era of the Bible and that when slave trade was practiced in the early 16th to 19th centuries. The guy who started this thread deliberately or in great ignorance compared the Biblical times with that of the 16th - 19th century. Let's look at some other things: In ancient times parents were commanded to stone their kids to death if they were rebellious. If you committed adultery you were stoned. Bears tore kids apart, floods drowned almost everybody, some wars required not to only kill the people, but to kill even the chickens... If anyone want to unfairly criticize God they have ample material to choose from.
What I was illustrating is that slavery wasn't a problem in ancient times providing the slave had a good master
I think the "providing the slave had a good master" is doing A LOT of the heaving lifting in that notion lol. The fact is that there is no guarantee that a slave will have a good master and there are no protections for slaves who don't and explicit stipulations that a so called "good master" can beat the utter shit out of a slave and face no repercussions as long as the slave survives for a few days after the beating.
There was a time before Christ and times after Christ. There is a big difference in the slave ownership era of the Bible and that when slave trade was practiced in the early 16th to 19th centuries.
Nope. Maybe you're thinking of the rules about Hebrews owning Hebrew slaves which was indeed more like indentured servitude. FOREIGN salves on the other hand were property and could even be passed on to your children as such.
There was a time before Christ and times after Christ.
A spurious objection which may easily be exposed by the answer to this question: Is the God of the Old Testament the same God of the New testament? Does God change or is God unchanging?
@Anton Being a slave is always a problem whether your master is "nice" or not. Personal autonomy and self determination is a right now, not in the times of the Bible.
Slavery is not a problem if you have a good Master / Owner. Many slaves owned by good masters would never dream of being free because their masters looked after them and their families. “Therefore,” Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:20, because you were bought with a price and are not your own, "glorify God in your body. Exclusive ownership implies complete submission. If we belong to Christ—if He owns us—then the rule of our lives is not our will, but His will—our Master’s will. Elsewhere Paul also say to believers so clearly: “You are not your own. You have been bought with a price” (1 Cor. 6:19–20). Christians do not exist in untethered autonomy. We are not the masters of our fate nor the captains of our souls. We were bought with a price, and so we belong to the One who has paid that price. I, for one, gladly submit to being a slave of God. He rescued me, cleansed me, provide for me and protects me. And He loves me and mean me no harm. Why on earth should I not want to remain his property and slave?
Since you are so eager to be a slave you can be one of the 2,800 slaves each Jew will get in the afterlife for eternity.
From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.
@JimboSaturn biblical slavery , and early American slavery were in no way related . American slavery was so bad it gave slavery a bad name . Until American slavery nobody had a problem w slavery ..
So let me cite you a couple Bible verses regarding slavery and for each one i want you to answer "Yes" or "No" as to whether you would have a problem with you or your daughter or son or mother or sister or friend being a slave under these conditions:
1) You can murder men and women and keep the virgin girls as your slaves.
Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. -Numbers 31:17-18
2) You can beat them to within an inch of their life and suffer no consequence.
Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property. -Exodus 21:20-21
3) You can keep them forever and pass them on to your children as your property.
‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. -Leviticus 25:44-46
No i think a "Yes" or "No" is exactly the right question for your claim "biblical slavery , and early American slavery were in no way related . American slavery was so bad it gave slavery a bad name . Until American slavery nobody had a problem w slavery".
I i know i have a problem with each of those. I want to see if you can honestly say you don't.
So please, what are you answers to those examples?
lol no need to be shitty about it. You came in here with a claim, don't get your back up just because you encountered some resistance. I don't need you to agree with me, just be honest.
But being honest, i think your reluctance to answer the questions is itself a telling answer.
Well i think you're right about that but also that's an answer to an imaginary question that you weren't asked. lol my dude, i'm not going to try to force you to answer a question you're clearly avoiding nor am i going to try to coddle you into doing so.
If you're not up for the discussion then no worries. Hit me up if you change your mind 😉
biblical slavery , and early American slavery were in no way related . American slavery was so bad it gave slavery a bad name . Until American slavery nobody had a problem w slavery ..
That is a 100% BS comment. Americans were one of the last groups to end slavery and it took a war to do it. One of the contributing factors was the slavers' adherence to the biblcal fairytale. And slavery is still legal in America although most States have banned it.
From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.
Damn right it is. If the federal government wanted to it could sell federal prisoners to you as slaves for a set amount of time. Of course, such people would probably knock your brains out as soon and they got their hands on a club. There were slave auctions advertized in newspapers in 1866, after the adoption of the 13th Amendment.
The 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Scroll down to page 6 of this pdf = https://blogs.law.columbia.edu/abolition1313/files/2020/08/Childs-Slaves-of-the-State-Ch.-2-2.pdf
From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.
For the past 158 years, State and federal prisons have operated as slave plantations. That is one of the main reasons America has more incarcerated people than any other country.
From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.
wards of the state are kinda the opposite of slaves . They are a liability rather than an asset. It costs a lot to incarcerate a man .
Since lynchings have fallen out of favor the preferred method for oppressing Blacks today is to imprison them regardless of the financial cost. having the Save Patrollers murder them is also an acceptble method of control. And one of the added benefits is that it deprives the convicted ones of their voting rights and all kinds of other human and civil rights.
BTW, remember that the constitution says that slavery is legal so the prisoners are actually slaves and not "wards of the state."
From the River to the Sea and From the Sea to the River Jordan.
