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Apostate Christianity: The Immortal Soul

The immortal soul is a pagan concept. Soul comes from a root word which means to bind. Superstitious pagan peoples would bind the hands and feet upon burial to prevent the dead from harming the living. The word evolved into a similar meaning always associated with large bodies of water (the sea) for the same reason. It was thought that the immortal souls were confined in large bodies of water, preventing them from bothering the living.

When translating the Bible from the Hebrew and Greek to English the word soul would be problematic due to it's pagan roots. However, it was the closest word we had. The Hebrew nephesh and the Greek psykhe are the Biblical terms translated into soul. The Hebrew word comes from a root that literally means "breather." The Greek word has a similar meaning. It means life and all that involves. A living being. That can be somewhat complicated by the usual obstacles, like variation in the the use of the word. Greek philosophers or modern day psychiatrists use the Greek word psykhe corresponds to the Hebrew word nephesh (nefesh, etc.)

The soul, according to the Bible, that is, nephesh or psykhe, is mortal, destructible.

Compare translations Ezekiel 18:4: "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins, he shall die." (WEB)

Compare translations Matthew 10:28: "Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (WEB)


Journal of Biblical Literature (Vol. XVI, p. 30): “Soul in English usage at the present time conveys usually a very different meaning from נפש [ne′phesh] in Hebrew, and it is easy for the incautious reader to misinterpret.”

The New York Times, October 12, 1962: H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College states regarding nefesh: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”

New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, V:ol. XIII, p. 467): “Nepes [ne′phesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man—man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”

The New American Bible Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms (pp. 27, 28): “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”

Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros (Leiden, 1958, p. 627) on nephesh: “the breathing substance, making man a[nd] animal living beings Gn 1, 20, the soul (strictly distinct from the greek notion of soul) the seat of which is the blood Gn 9, 4f Lv 17, 11 Dt 12, 23: (249 X) . . . soul = living being, individual, person.”

New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450: “There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy‧khe′] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”

The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152: “The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”

The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564: “The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”

New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454: “The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”

Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557: “The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”

The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556: “The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”

Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246: “Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”

Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35: “Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”

Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A: Plato, quoting Socrates: "The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods."

Also see

Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, revised by H. Jones, 1968, pp. 2026, 2027;
Donnegan’s New Greek and English Lexicon, 1836, p. 1404
SW-User
Gosh, you have got a lot of free time on your hands. Why not use your time more constructively by helping others.
Perhaps helping out at a night shelter or a food bank. You will then begin to understand what your soul is.
@SW-User Refute the information, otherwise you're only wasting time. I'm just going to delete posts that offer no rebuttal.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
So Jesus was lying when He spoke the words in John 11:25-26? Please clarify.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@AkioTsukino Do you really think you are that smart? I mean really? You have some sort of imaginary power to decide this is Christian and this is Greek? The fact is that Jesus said that those who believe in Him will not die. End of discussion. The rest is splitting hairs and debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Those who want to create conflict in the brotherhood is the enemy not the friend.
@hippyjoe1955 Your argument, and I use the term very loosely, is a contradiction. First of all we agree. John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent (https://biblehub.com/john/17-3.htm). It is very easy to decide which is Christian and which is Greek philosophy. The OP does that, with sources. You can do it by yourself just by reading the two verses I gave. Ezekiel 18:4 and Matthew 10:28.

The weakness in your poorly constructed argument is that you confuse life, or specifically the body, with the soul in a way that supposes they are separate. The soul (life) ends upon death. The body goes to hell (grave). Everlasting life is the body resurrected, and the soul (life) continues.
Justice4All · 36-40, M
@AkioTsukino [quote]The Hebrew nephesh and the Greek psykhe are the Biblical terms translated into soul. [/quote]

The Old Testament says very little about what happens to the soul to begin with. If we didn't read the NT, we wouldn't know there is life after death. As it relates to the afterlife, we are only introduced to the concepts of heaven and hell in the NT - seriously, it's not in the OT.

What we think of when we hear the word 'soul' may not be the same thing as the Hebrew word nephesh.

I think the Hebrew word 'ruach' and Greek word 'pneuma' would more appropriately describe the life force that separates from the body after death.

1 Corinthians 5:5
Hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit (pneuma) may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit (pneuma) gives life because of righteousness.

In Hebrews 4:12, both words are used and there is a definite distinction.

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul (psyche) and of spirit (pneuma), of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
sree251 · 41-45, M
The concept of soul is what we say it is. All your references have no bearing on what the meaning of soul is to Christians today.

We may have been walking on all fours as apes but we are not doing that now. To condemn us as apostates is to tell us that we need to be supporting ourselves on our front knuckles like chimps and gorillas.

I don't know what you are trying to do with your research, but there is no way we are going to stop walking on our back legs. Let us accept your argument that we are apostate apes and go to Hell.
@sree251 [quote]You have drawn your conclusion based on your analysis of your research.[/quote]

Okay. I think I can agree with that.

[quote]You can't foist it on Christians who now have a perception of the soul as they see it. [/quote]

Foist: impose an unwelcome or unnecessary person or thing on.

I can foist it, but it means little. It isn't going to change anything. There isn't even likely going to be any real discussion or debate. I know this. But, according to the Bible you are to correct fellow believers with accurate knowledge. If they listen and sincerely contemplate the correction, or correct your own possible knowledge it's up to God. More often than not, I think, it is a religious, traditional, cultural, or ideological stumbling block. They don't want the truth, though it is also possible (probably rare) that the person's ideology isn't more important to them than the truth of Jehovah God's word. God sees the heart through what appears on the surface. They may sincerely believe their error.

You see, the prophets of old weren't criticizing primarily the skeptic, but the religious leaders; the apostles, when forming the Christian church, also had disagreements and voted democratically on them.
sree251 · 41-45, M
@AkioTsukino Ok, I see where you are going. You are pushing for the truth. The truth about what? The historical truth about Christianity can only be discovered by unbiased academics who are not practitioners of the faith. Such a truth has nothing to do with spirituality.

Case in point. Alexander Wynn's research uncovered no evidence of the Buddha's existence, nor could he find any scriptural texts affirming direct transmission of the Buddha's teaching to his disciples. In other words, based on his findings, one can conclude that Buddhism was invented by monks. The same can be said about Christianity.

However, the wisdom in Christ's teaching, and that of the Buddha, is beyond human understanding. It defies intellectual analysis; and yet, impossible to dismiss.
@sree251 [quote]Ok, I see where you are going. You are pushing for the truth. The truth about what? The historical truth about Christianity can only be discovered by unbiased academics who are not practitioners of the faith. Such a truth has nothing to do with spirituality.[/quote]

Spirituality is like Kung Fu. It's everything.

[media=https://youtu.be/G6f0w5BRasw]

The truth about Christianity is there for anyone who sees.

[quote]Case in point. Alexander Wynn's research uncovered no evidence of the Buddha's existence, nor could he find any scriptural texts affirming direct transmission of the Buddha's teaching to his disciples. In other words, based on his findings, one can conclude that Buddhism was invented by monks. The same can be said about Christianity.[/quote]

No, because the Buddha's writings were not committed to writing until from 500 - 1000 years later. The apostles wrote well within 100 years. Not to mention the prophecies that foretold it well before.

[quote]However, the wisdom in Christ's teaching, and that of the Buddha, is beyond human understanding. It defies intellectual analysis; and yet, impossible to dismiss.[/quote]

Nonsense. But it does remind me. I've got some stuff for religion forum.
Random3838 · 36-40, M
I would agree the soul is far greater than the english definition of it. Soul represents life but not just life, the breath of life that God breathes into us.

then the Lord God formed the man out of the dust of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 2:7 NABRE

Death of soul does not mean destruction of the soul where it becomes nonexistent. Death of the soul is Hell. Though a soul goes to hell, it still exsist making it immortal. Likewise for a soul that goes to heaven. It is eternal making it immortal.
@Random3838 [quote]I would agree the soul is far greater than the english definition of it. Soul represents life but not just life, the breath of life that God breathes into us.[/quote]

Those two things are the same. Your point seems redundant.

[quote]Death of soul does not mean destruction of the soul where it becomes nonexistent. Death of the soul is Hell. Though a soul goes to hell, it still exsist making it immortal. Likewise for a soul that goes to heaven. It is eternal making it immortal.[/quote]

Okay, first there does need to be some clarification as to exactly what is meant by immortal. Immortal can mean without beginning or end. In such a case only God is immortal. Not any other spirit beings, not any human. So that isn't really what we are talking about.

Secondly immortal can mean remembered for great periods of time. Though dead one can be immortal in this sense. We aren't talking about that, either.

Now your immediate quote above brings up an interesting point. The scriptures given clearly state that the soul that sins (all offspring of man with the exception of Christ) dies. But Christ died. Christ went to hell. His physical form went to the grave. He also went to (depending on the translation) hell in heaven. Tartarus, to preach to the disobedient angels who brought about the flood. He went to heaven, not in physical but in spiritual form.

So, the body isn't the soul, though, in the case of any creature, animal or human, the (I can't think of a better word) basis of the soul is blood. The Hebrew means breather. The blood carries oxygen. The eating of blood is prohibited. Because it belongs to God.

My next post in this series will be hell, but let me clarify something here. Romans 6:7 says we are set free or acquitted from sin upon death. (https://biblehub.com/romans/6-7.htm). Sin equals death, not eternity in hell. To suggest hell is to slander God.
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@jshm2 Okay. What do they say, or is it not possible to relate in English? I think your argument has absolutely no basis. If you look at the Hebrew / Greek words nephesh and psyche you don't need to even consider the English. Not that the English word soul is a very good translation, as mentioned in the OP.

 
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