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The Immortal Soul

The immortal soul is a pagan concept. Soul comes from a root word which means to bind. Superstitious pagan peoples would bind the hands and feet upon burial to prevent the dead from harming the living. The word evolved into a similar meaning always associated with large bodies of water (the sea) for the same reason. It was thought that the immortal souls were confined in large bodies of water, preventing them from bothering the living.

When translating the Bible from the Hebrew and Greek to English the word soul would be problematic due to it's pagan roots. However, it was the closest word we had. The Hebrew nephesh and the Greek psykhe are the Biblical terms translated into soul. The Hebrew word comes from a root that literally means "breather." The Greek word has a similar meaning. It means life and all that involves. A living being. That can be somewhat complicated by the usual obstacles, like variation in the the use of the word. Greek philosophers or modern day psychiatrists use the Greek word psykhe corresponds to the Hebrew word nephesh (nefesh, etc.)

The soul, according to the Bible, that is, nephesh or psykhe, is mortal, destructible.

Compare translations Ezekiel 18:4: "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins, he shall die." (WEB)

Compare translations Matthew 10:28: "Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (WEB)

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[b]Journal of Biblical Literature (Vol. XVI, p. 30):[/b] “Soul in English usage at the present time conveys usually a very different meaning from נפש [ne′phesh] in Hebrew, and it is easy for the incautious reader to misinterpret.”

[b]The New York Times, October 12, 1962[/b]: H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College states regarding nefesh: “Other translators have interpreted it to mean ‘soul,’ which is completely inaccurate. The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.”

[b]New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967, V:ol. XIII, p. 467):[/b] “Nepes [ne′phesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man—man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”

[b]The New American Bible Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms (pp. 27, 28)[/b]: “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”

[b]Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros (Leiden, 1958, p. 627)[/b] on nephesh: “the breathing substance, making man a[nd] animal living beings Gn 1, 20, the soul (strictly distinct from the greek notion of soul) the seat of which is the blood Gn 9, 4f Lv 17, 11 Dt 12, 23: (249 X) . . . soul = living being, individual, person.”

[b]New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450[/b]: “There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy‧khe′] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”

[b]The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152[/b]: “The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”

[b]The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564[/b]: “The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”

[b]New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454[/b]: “The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”

[b]Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557[/b]: “The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”

[b]The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556[/b]: “The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”

[b]Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246[/b]: “Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”

[b]Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35[/b]: “Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”

[b]Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A: Plato, quoting Socrates[/b]: "The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods."

Also see

Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, revised by H. Jones, 1968, pp. 2026, 2027;
Donnegan’s New Greek and English Lexicon, 1836, p. 1404
Heavenlywarrior · 36-40, M
The breather and the breath are two separate things right? Can we say the breath is eternal? The breath is Life
BibleData · M
@Heavenlywarrior [quote]before the Hebrews// Israelites// Jacob…. It was Sumer/ it was eygpt. It was God Almighty. God was still around and used people… example : the ancient stories of Noah and the flood is found right in the enuma Elisha. Epics of Gilgamesh.

Stories passed down from tribe and culture. Abraham was part of the Chaldean and Sumerian culture. Before him , was eygpt with Joseph … the Hebrews were dwelling in Egypt and ruled in Egypt.[/quote]

Okay. Let's say you, I and @revenant witnessed an event. The police take our stories. They're all pretty much the same. Some details differ according to our perspective, for example, you say it was light outside, revenant says it was dark and I say it was both. Still light but getting dark.

Then, a screenplay writer writes a book about the event but he spices it up for the big screen. With maybe some explosions, a dragon, a wizard, a romance and exaggerated fight scenes. The public like the film adaptation "based on a true story" because our story is boring.

Then the lawyers come in and try to spin things so the jury don't know night from day. They don't know what to believe. The lawyers are mixing our version with the Hollywood version and trying to make us look bad so our story doesn't fly with the jury. If, they say, our story doesn't fit you (the jury) must acquit.

That's kind of what happened. Elisha and Gilgamesh are Hollywood versions based on the true stories. They were circulated before Moses wrote down the true story. They aren't or even claim to be inspired by God. The true story is inspired. So, then you have to test the inspired story to see if there's anything wrong with it. If it all fits together. That isn't easy because the translation of the Bible isn't inspired. It's like reporters that tried earnestly, for the most part, though not always, to get the story right and although it was close enough, it wasn't perfect.

[quote]also what do you say of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? Their Canon has many extra books in it. Are they wrong? If so why? Why the Roman Catholics get to dictate what’s right and acceptable?


Oh I know … because they claim to be the vicor of Christ on Earth… that all have to follow.[/quote]

None of that matters too much. If the story doesn't fit then the cannon is wrong. The result is that if you know the Bible then when someone says something the Bible says and it doesn't fit, leave it out.
Heavenlywarrior · 36-40, M
@BibleData definitely a good analogy I’ll give u that. There’s so much deception I’ll say…
revenant · F
@BibleData @Heavenlywarrior Yes if you want to create your own spin by leaving out details.
If you wanted to sell a product and create a best seller...
Yesterday I was looking at mushroom powder sold online and perusing some the answers to questions. * true story reality based*
The mysterious fungi sounded all good and miraculous. Then my own lawyers ( in my head ) pointed out that the term " wild harvested in China" was possibly a misnomer and my own former perception possibly got altered with the added information.
Leaving facts out create half lies.
Morvoren · F
It’s always funny when one religious group calls another religious group superstitious.
BibleData · M
@Morvoren Well, I've never belonged to any religious or political group, and any religious group can be superstitious. Lot's of irreligious people are superstitious as well. Good luck. That's superstition. Luck charms, step on a crack, don't open an umbrellas indoors. There are all sorts of superstitions.
Peaceandnamaste · 26-30, F
@Morvoren There's plenty of nonreligious people that believe in good luck and bad luck and about being fortunate and misfortunate, astrology, ghosts, Karma, destiny, fate and unlucky black cats and unlucky Friday the 13th.

Nobody is exempt from "superstitions" not even scientists. Some say and claim they're against it but still use so called "superstitious" terms to describe astronomical and rare events that shouldn't and couldn't happen and calls them "miracles", "coincidences" and "synchronicities".

That's when Quantum physics and spirituality begins to merge.
revenant · F
So not everybody thought that the soul was eternal ? how interesting !
Max41 · 26-30, M
The soul is destructible according to bible because jesus was a criminal .
Max41 · 26-30, M
@BibleData If thousands of people had beared his nuisance , they cannot be wrong demanding his hanging .
And the paganism that he made wine from water , or cure people by touching .

Had became a problem for large section of society , and was stubborn to stop it . But only increased his fraud activities continuously , which led to his hanging .
BibleData · M
@Max41 But, if thousands of Christians decided that they had bared the nuisance of an unbeliever who hadn't committed a crime it could lead to their hanging as well. Or homosexuals, or black or brown people, or republicans, or communists etc.

Jesus may have pissed off the religious Jews of his day, but he didn't commit a crime. And it still has nothing to do with the soul being destructible. Maybe you were saying that his soul was destructible because he died? That I can accept.
Max41 · 26-30, M
@BibleData Brown people didn't existed in shitty roman place .
There were surely white homosexuals , whites gays , blacks and others .
If someone has read bible they will find his crime as well .
Carazaa · F
[b]The immortal soul is not a pagan concept. It is Biblical.
[/b]
[b]The Return of the Lord[/b]
…[b][c=BF0000]1 Thes 4 [/c][/b][quote][b]For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will forever be with the Lord.Therefore encourage one another with these words.…[/b][/quote]
Finally, a thorough enough definition of a soul to answer my question. I've been asking for years what the difference is between a soul and a spirit.

 
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