Why do Christians grieve so when a loved one dies? Do they grieve as much as an atheist? They'll be reunited with them in paradise so why so sad?

@Pikachu That still leaves the possibility of them changing their mind and returning, or going to visit them, even if it would be a significant expense.

@Pikachu I am an atheist and no of course not

@OggggO

I don't think we need to be inventing reasons why the analogy doesn't need to be 1:1 lol
The point being that there seems to be a difference between someone simply not being where you are and someone being lost to you forever. A distinction which doesn't seem very real given the Christian worldview.

@CopperCicada

This is all heartbreaking to me.
I just wonder why it would be as heartbreaking to someone who believes that after a time of separation they will be reunited.

Although i do find more compelling the examples of folks whose personal identity is so wrapped up with their partner. That resonates for me because my partner defines my life as well.

@Pikachu It needs to be and should be heartbreaking. This is what makes us human. Evolutionary biology has given us an attachment system for survival. A variety of researchers have written about and studied this. We don’t want our spiritual beliefs to turn this off.

@CopperCicada

I agree with that sentiment.

@SW-User

Yup. They do try to make sense of it.

@Pikachu It wouldn't require faith otherwise

@SW-User

I guess not

@Nanori
lol what that seems like a mean thing to say to someone who has lost someone but i understand the point.

@Pikachu no bruh I wouldn't say that to someone who's mourning, it was just a random question at a random time

@Nanori

lol oh ok cool. Glad to hear you're not a monster

@Ceinwyn

1) i think you've misunderstood me if you think i am suggesting that grieving is uniquely Christian or if you think i believe that non-Christians feel loss less severely...i mean, i literally suggest the opposite lol

2) I'm sorry if you've got the impression that i hate Christians. I absolutely don't. I think they're wrong about their worldview, i contest them where they deny science and i enjoy debating what i view as problematic elements, stories or beliefs from their faith...but i certainly don't Hate Christians.
One of my best friends of 20 years (on Tuesday) is a Christian. I don't hate her lol

@Ceinwyn
It's not necessary to be a Christian or even a human to feel the loss of a loved one. You just have to be a typical animal. While such grieving behavior is normal it is not a good idea or beneficial to do it for an extended period. It is necessary to be able to put it all behind you after a certain time or else you will become depressed, get sick, and die. That is reality. The Bible suggests a maximum time of about a week.

@ArishMell

So do you think someone who is truly strong in their faith wouldn't grieve over the loss of a loved one?

@Pikachu Just the opposite. They would grieve; but their faith may provide them with at least some psychological support and a way of saying farewell.

@ArishMell

Well that's what i think

@Pikachu There is zero support for that idea in the Bible or in the Mormon version of heaven or in Islam.

@Diotrephes

lol take it up with Christians. That's what they're taught in church. That's what many of them believe.
There are a few mentions of eternal life when you accept god so i dunno.

@Pikachu
IMO, that is a BS belief because it has no support in the fairy tales. While Islam does say that children can go to paradise the Bible does not even hint that children will get into the golden cube or even be judged on Judgment Day. In the Mormon version the good guy gets his own planet and harem and he is the God of the world and he populates it with children from his harem. As far as I know no children from this existence are involved.

Maybe someone can cite some relevant passages that will prove me wrong but I doubt it.

@markansas I was taught exactly that, I was tyring to make a joke :P

@markansas

Could be.
I wonder if you're allowed to have gay sex in heaven or if that one is still bad

@Pikachu i would think not.. kinda opens up all the doors .. gotta love it.

@Pikachu Well, that has me thinking. I think it is a temporary form of grief - until you speak with them on the phone or see them ? - Then the grieving stops. If you never see them again, it would be a form of grief (similar to Holocaust survivors)


Grief - Intense sorrow
Loss - The feeling of grief

@dontbekoi


Well that's the thing, isn't it?
If you're a Christian then you believe that will see them again.

@Pikachu

Very true but that may be in 20 + years. I'm gonna miss that person's presence in my life.

In the meantime, there are going to be tears. Sorry Jesus 😉

@Diotrephes


lol does it?
Cain murdered his brother and then lied to god about it.
He's not getting into heaven...
Not sure how this demonstrates an unfamiliarity with the Bible...

Yup. First the dead in Christ rise and reign (over whom i'm not sure) and then the rest of us will rise and be judged.
Not really a trick question.

Also i'm still unclear as to how this relates to your notion that heaven is going to be crowded and awkward?
Can you answer that one for me? Because now it just seems like we're playing "who knows the Bible better" lol

@Pikachu
The Bible clearly says that "evil" people will be on the planet where "heaven" -- the golden cube called New Jerusalem - - is located. I provided chapter and verse for that. The "evil" people won't be allowed to enter the golden cube but they will see it towering 1,500 miles into the sky behind the tall wall around it. Why else would the cube need a wall around it if all of the bad people had been tossed into the lake of fire?

If you call the golden cube heaven it is sitting on a large planet and it is a golden cube 1,500 miles tall and 1,500 miles per side. Hell was tossed into the lake of fire in Revelation 20:14. So, how should the area outside of the wall be classified? It says that the "saved" can freely pass through the twelve gates. So, that must mean that the "saved" and the "dogs" who are excluded can intermingle. Isn't that wonderful? The "saved" can come out and visit their evil relatives and then return to their golden rooms after eating from the tree of life and drinking the water of life. But what will the excluded eat and drink for eternity since they will never die because Death was also tossed into the lake of fire, Revelation 20:14.

@Diotrephes

lol what is happening?

This is where we started: Would you really be comfortable meeting your ancestors of 20,000 generations ago? After all, everyone loves someone and wants to see them in paradise/heaven.

And i reckoned that such inconveniences would probably not be a huge issue...and i'm just not seeing from your admittedly well constructed descriptions from Revaluation why i should change my mind on that lol

@Carissimi

I think it would be helpful to the discussion if you explained why you feel that the question is so absurd 🙂

It’s obvious that no matter one’s faith or lack of faith, we are all human, and share the universal emotion of grief at such loss. Believing that a loved one will be in heaven, does not diminish the profound loss of them in your life. @Pikachu

@Carissimi


Why not?
Why don't you feel less loss at being temporarily separated than separated forever?

@Lilymoon

Perhaps, but that seems to me more like knowing you won't see your friend again until they finish college or something.

@Lilymoon Pretty much.

@Pikachu Yes the Bible is confusing that way. Mainstream Christianity says or implies that our loved ones are in heaven immediately but then you have the whole second coming of Jesus and him judging at that point.

@JimboSaturn

I think the mainstream teaching isn't well supported by the Bible which makes it pretty clear that the dead are asleep, that the dead in Christ will rise first and that the rest of the dead will rise after them and be judged.

@Pikachu Yep, but the current zeitgeist is not to tell people that , it's not what we want to hear so the priest actually say they are in heaven now. Sophisticated Christians can say "well time is irrelevant in heaven so to them its now but to people on earth the rapture is in the future etc..." The supernatural always give you an out.

@robingoodfellow

No, it's a genuine question because as an Atheist it seems to me that believing you will be reunited would be such a comfort that i can't imagine being as upset by what is apparently a temporary separation as i would by by a permanent one.

@Pikachu sadness over separation is a basic human emotion. This is something we all have in common and all can relate to. Doesn't matter if you're Christian or atheist or whatever your philosophy.
You have to know this. Again, I'm not Christian and I don't really expect to meet up with people I love after death. Yet I don't have to wonder why Christians grieve.

I understand the value of the science vs. faith debate. But the number of these debates you start here makes it seem like you have an agenda to make Christians question their faith, or at least point out it doesn't make sense when you hold it up to scrutiny.
It feels like trolling.

Here I am defending the Christian community.
That doesn't happen too often 😶

@robingoodfellow

I know it's natural to grieve a loss. I guess it just seems to me that to the Christian it's not the same kind of loss because they believe it's temporary.


I don't think the topics i discuss would cause the majority of Christians to question their faith since, as you recognize, my posts often focus on anti-scientific fringe interpretations of the Bible. I rarely even address any argument regarding the existence or non-existence of god.
But in general i just find the debate enjoyable.
And that's the one and only time i'll defend my motivations to you. You're welcome😉

@easterniowegin

I wonder why the mourning enters into it at all though. At least morning someone in that way.
Like if my best friend was going to leave for a long time or even if i'd never see them again, i'd surely be sad about it...but i wouldn't be mourning the same way as if they had been killed.

@Pikachu why is there a difference for you between any death and being killed? Are you just talking about tragedy or something else?

@easterniowegin

I'm just talking about the separation of death in general, divorced from the manner of death because we can all grieve someone's suffering or be thankful for a peaceful passing.

@Pikachu it's because of Canada's former status as a colony of Great Britain

@Lilymoon

Yup.
We asked politely to be our own country and so we never disavowed our loyalty to the crown lol

@Pikachu Yeah it really needs to go. lol

@JimboSaturn

I don't know why it's necessary either.
Probably cuz folks are attached to their bodies lol

@RocktheHouse

so you reckon that Christians are grieving because they think their loved one might go to hell?

@Pikachu It's likely many Christians believe there's a distinct possibility their loved one could end up in a place of suffering. Most Christians are not strongly rooted in the faith.

@RocktheHouse
Maybe. But i suspect most people are convinced that their loved one would end up in heaven.
I'm not sure that's an adequate explanation .