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Atheist Penn Jillette on proselytization

LordShadowfire · 2023-10-05T00:05:42-04:00

Beliefs - Atheist Penn Jillette on proselytization (Quote) Think about that. This is coming from someone... (52 replies).

I’ve always said that I don’t respect people who don’t proselytize. I don’t respect that at all. If you believe that there’s a heaven and a hell, and people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward—and atheists who think people shouldn’t proselytize and who say just leave me along and keep your religion to yourself—how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?

I mean, if I believed, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that a truck was coming at you, and you didn’t believe that truck was bearing down on you, there is a certain point where I tackle you. And this is more important than that.

Think about that. This is coming from someone who has repeatedly professed an absolute lack of belief in any gods or afterlife. And even he says that if you're a Christian or a Muslim, and you're not actively trying to convince people that heaven and hell are real, you are (at least in your own mind) deliberately and willfully condemning people to hell.

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BohemianBabe · M

I completely understand his point, it makes sense. But he doesn't seem to get that religious people don't actually believe in their own religions. The tolerant religious people who don't try to convert you, they're constantly breaking the rules of their own religion. Because on some level, maybe subconsciously, they know there is no evidence for any religion.

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BritishFailedAesthetic · M

@LordShadowfire Hate speech is incitement to violence, promoting terrorist organisations, etc.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@BritishFailedAesthetic Not according to the United Nations...
https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/what-is-hate-speech

Or Merriam-Webster:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hate%20speech

And just for fun, here's the definition from Black's Law Dictionary.

https://thelawdictionary.org/article/the-legalities-of-hate-speech/

So now go argue with the linguistic experts as to what it means, because I'm fucking done with you.

BritishFailedAesthetic · M

@LordShadowfire NO COME BACK!!!!!!!!!!! WE WERE JUST GETTING TO KNOW EACH OTHER!!!!!!!!!!! 😂

SW-User

I think faith and spirituality is something you achieve through personal experience not the words of others

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SW-User

@LordShadowfire you're warning people about things you don't really know exist..I think you have to hate people to create the concept of hell

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@SW-User I mean, I don't believe in hell, and I think that any god who would create such a place is plain old evil, but my point still stands.

Maybe this will help. Imagine that you know for a fact that the town bridge is out. Nobody's put up a sign yet, and folks driving down the main drag can't see the bridge. You see some young people driving toward the bridge. Do you warn them?

SW-User

@LordShadowfire it's still facts versus non facts..warning people about non facts equates to insanity...a true believer who genuinely loves people is just a good person, no more is required

Axeroberts · 56-60, M

this is coming from an atheist who does not know how it really feels to believe, so his conclusion is skewed. people who believe can be rational and not this irrational belief of believing beyond a shadow of a doubt. he has this wrong. many believers are still rational human beings and understand it is a belief and not a fact. of course there are some people who are not but not everyone as he depicts

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Axeroberts · 56-60, M

@LordShadowfire but currently you are not a believer?

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@Axeroberts I do not believe in Christianity. As far as my belief in gods, it's complicated. I think they exist, but are the creations of humans, at least most of them.

Axeroberts · 56-60, M

@LordShadowfire sounds like you do not have a strong belief. no offense

BritishFailedAesthetic · M

Great motivation to evangelise.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@BritishFailedAesthetic I might think Christianity is horseshit, but if you're a Christian and you're not trying to convince me hell is real, I have to assume you hate me.

That's the real reason I pester Christians for evidence. I'm fully prepared to admit there's a possibility that I could be wrong. If you or anybody else can provide compelling evidence for why I should convert to Christianity, I want to know.

JPWhoo · 36-40, M

What if you’re a Christian but you don’t believe in the existence of hell, just Heaven?

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@JPWhoo I mean, there's still the fact that anybody who doesn't believe in that particular brand of Christianity is supposedly going to be destroyed. The Bible says that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, which depending on your interpretation either means that everybody who was dead who didn't become a Christian was destroyed or tortured for eternity. If I believe that there's an eternal reward, but only for people who believe as I do, I should be telling everybody I care about.

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basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M

That might apply to Abrahamic religions, but isn't necessarily the case with Eastern religions. We don't proselytise as we believe there is no eternal damnation and many paths to God.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@basilfawlty89 Well, exactly. And that's kind of where I am in my own beliefs. I'm fully convinced it doesn't matter what you do, and that people who don't believe in an afterlife will be pleasantly surprised to find they were wrong. But I'm saying if you're a Christian and you're not trying to convert people, you must really hate them.

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