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An Untenable Position if Ever there Was One

Atheism, that is. At least for me. I can understand a person's rejection of a particular religion or religious text, because they may have doubts about its authenticity, or the claims made, but to truly believe that our physical realm is all there is and all there could possibly be, is just taking things too far. It's unreasonable to think that reality itself is limited to the extent of our own ability to perceive it with our (very limited and limiting) five senses. That just doesn't make any sense.
Agnosticism is a far more reasonable stance, if only because it's perfectly appropriate to believe there are some things we will simply never know. Knowledge actually does have its limits, there will never be a time when we will fully understand everything there is to understand.
OldBrit · 61-69, M
I call myself an atheist.

That's because I don't believe in there being a single (or multiple) deity(ies) which have a controlling influence over the universe (or universes).

I used to call myself a militant agnostic for years but sadly hardly anyone got that gag.

Now do I believe there are multiple universes? Not sure according to string theory arguably yes. In my view? Likely - but as I'm unlikely to ever visit or be influenced by them it's a moot point.

Now having said I'm an atheist and don't believe in a deity (or multiples thereof). The God(s) people worship in religion must exist for those people; for God(s) only need faith to exist for those believers. But to me that's between them and their God(s). Again I don't believe in said deity have no faith in one therefore I'm an atheist and those Gods don't exist - for me.

I see you have the serenity prayer in your album. My favourite prayer being the adopted prayer of Alcoholics Anonymous. A prayer I've used privately many thousands of times and publicly regularly recite at meetings.

Hang on you shout, that says God? Yes but my interpretation of an inner resource isn't God Consciousness but simply the power of combined human endeavour and the connection through shared matter and power (atoms and their bonds) I have with everything in the universe.

Finally soul and life after death. I dont believe in them. When I die I'm gone, finished etc. I won't face the deity I don't believe in because I don't believe in it.

So I'm happy people calling themselves atheist, agnostic or believing in a deity (or deities) of thier choice. All are valid, all are true, all are right.
Primnproper · 56-60, F
@OldBrit perfectly put my friend 🤗
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@Primnproper Yes, this is a good response ♥️
“You believe in a book that has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, burning bushes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd and primitive stories, and you say that we are the ones that need help?”
― Mark Twain
@Bellatrix2024 It’s an effective adage based on logic and not nearly as old as the Bible verses. Sagan's book The Demon Haunted World was a big influence on me. Took decades to become a freethinker. I was raised Catholic and when a Sunday school teacher tried to explain limbo, doubt was in my mind. Like I said, objective evidence would be acceptable.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
Why is it everyone believes god can pop into existence from nothing, but not the universe itself ?
God would have to be far more complex, and unlikely. And what kind of plan could he have, that couldn’t be achieved at the onset of creation ?
Very impractical belief.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
why must God do anything at all? Seriously. Who are we to make demands?
Humans have been designing gods for centuries. We customize them to do whatever is needed from creation to beyond death.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
Just because you, as a human being, can't fully perceive every aspect of the physical world around us is NO reason to believe there is any mystical/religious/magical basis to any part of existence. That's merely you being unable to accept reality without having a crutch to try and explain it to yourself.
@ChipmunkErnie 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@ChipmunkErnie Okay then. Tell me something. Do you know about whether or not physical reality as such is either necessary or contingent? In other words, does our physical reality have the form it does because that's the way it had to be, or could it have possibly had other properties or not existed at all in the first place?
Is reality just a "brute fact"; i.e. just there, and we have to accept it, or is there an ultimate explanation even if we don't know what that explanation is?
And in using the words "mystical", "religious" and "magical", you've (deliberately, I'd bet) misrepresented my position on this.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@Bellatrix2024 Existence is a self-evident fact. It exists regardless of how human beings philosophize about it. As to misrepresenting your position, the original statement was confusing as to exactly what it is, so I had to guess.
ABCDEF7 · M
If you believe there is god or you believe there is no god, you are on the same boat. You are believing something that you don't know.

I believe this, you believe that, doesn't make any difference. Everybody can believe whatever you want. It need not to have anything to do with reality as such.
Primnproper · 56-60, F
@ABCDEF7 That is another great definition..👏
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@ABCDEF7 Yes, true.
Ynotisay · M
OK. But I don't think it's unreasonable in any way to only perceive through our five senses. As long as scientific truths are included. It makes absolute sense. You're working from an assumption that there's something "more." Why? We're just animals that, through mutations, have developed a sense of cognition over millions of years. That's a physical function in our brains. It just doesn't strike me as something that has to equate to the supernatural.
Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@Ynotisay There has to be more though, because our ability to understand the reality we find ourselves in only extends to the horizons of the observable universe. Other ideas have lately sprung up (ex. multiverse, dark flow) that point to a transcendent reality.
The supernatural is, by definition, that which is beyond the natural. It doesn't necessarily mean believing in ghosts or the afterlife.
DocSavage · M
@Bellatrix2024
the reality we find ourselves in only extends to the horizons of the observable universe.
Abstract thinking gives us the imagination to conceive ideas beyond our five senses, it does not make them real. You still need something to build the premise on. Otherwise it’s just a dream.
DocSavage · M
Agnosticism is an illusion. An empty tittle,created by a misconception of Atheism. You fail to see the hypocrisy in it.
Atheist, while extremely skeptical about the existence of god or gods is not inflexible as you seen to think. Most of us employ critical thinking to the point. I do not believe that a deity does, or could exist in any context, as described. Creator, or universal spiritual being. What have you. However, there is no reason to think, that given new evidence and information, my view would not change. It’s not a question of being open to the possibility. It’s the fact that there isn’t evidence to support the conclusions.
Agnostic or Atheist, you have to accept what you have. What might be, isn’t necessarily what is. All you’re doing is implying that agnostics have a better capacity of faith, compared to Atheist. It called hedging your bets.
DocSavage · M
@ChipmunkErnie
Or both can simply say : I do not believe in god or gods.
It stands to reason if either were given sufficient proof both would change their opinions.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
@DocSavage Why do people insist on trying to re-write simple definitions based on what might happen some day in some circumstance?
DocSavage · M
@ChipmunkErnie
They think it makes them “open minded”
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
I don't know what to call myself. I do not believe in a man-like God that sits on a throne in heaven, but I also do believe in some form of supreme power.
I've already seen multiple false assumptions of what atheism is, so maybe your view of atheism is untenable rather than atheism itself.
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Bellatrix2024 · 22-25
@DocSavage Do you even know what "irredentist" means?
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