How man can prove God exists.

@DocSavage

What is your concept of God?

@yrger depends on what you want from him ( it)
As Creator, a single, all powerful being of spiritual intelligence is impractical. As a spiritual being, concerned with our souls, and the afterlife, you got to ask, why ? What reason does he have for sorting us into heaven or hell. I take into account the various mythologies for that.
But, again not practical. At best, god it simply what set things in motion.
That’s all.

@DocSavage

Hi Doc, you say:
"At best, god it simply what set things in motion.
That’s all."

You are saying that you accept a god that set things in motion, I agree with you.

What about I tell you that your concept of god implicates the existence of god as per my definition of god:
"God is the permanent self-existent container of all things creator and operator of man and the universe and everything that is not God Himself."

Let you and me continue our exchange, is that all right with you? I really love to interact with you.

@yrger
If you’ve ever read any H.P. Lovecraft ? There is a being called Azathoth, the dumb, blind god. He’s just a ball of mindless energy. Said to be the cause of the Big Bang. He has no control, no thought, no agenda, no cosmic plan.
He just got things moving. That’s it.
And, as far as I see it, there’s no need for a continued existence., once it’s started.

@DocSavage Hi Doc.

H.P. Lovecraf was a fiction writer of horror-fantasy stories.

We are not engaged in talking about fictioanl horror-fantasy stories.

You and I are talking about your concept of god:
"At best, god it simply what set things in motion.
That’s all."

@yrger
I’m aware that he was a horror fiction writer. My point is I don’t see god as something with an agenda or planned purpose. Most people I encounter always ask, “ if there’s no god, who created the universe ? “ or “ who set off the Big Bang?” It’s always a who, rather than a what.
This implies that the universe is a creation, with some ultimate goal. That we were created with some preset function. I don’t see that . God, as I said , set things in motion. Like mixing chemicals , and having them explode in your face. A catalyst. The rest formed as a result, and life sprung up from there.
The idea, of a conscious, living being, with supernatural powers and intelligence, a reason for good and evil, or an afterlife is too impractical.
An unguided natural force, fits into what we have.

@DocSavage

Hi Doc, you say:
"The idea, of a conscious, living being, with supernatural powers and intelligence, a reason for good and evil, or an afterlife is too impractical.
An unguided natural force, fits into what we have."

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"An unguided natural force, fits into what we have."

Forgive me, Doc, but how could an unquided natural force have produced humans who traveled to the moon and came back to earth?

@yrger The evidence for Homo sapiens dates back to over 200,000 BCE and likely longer. When man started to use metals, it took only five thousand years to make it to the moon. What was god waiting for?

I read a book about history though the inventions of man. One builds upon the the previous knowledge. The Greeks got it right in their mythology, it all started with fire.

@yrger
We evolved. Bigger brains, opposable thumbs. All god had to do was get the ball rolling.

@DocSavage
Hi Doc, you say:
"I always found the description of god to be too impractical to be considered realistic.
Theist like to bring up the argument that creation needs a creator. But of course god is the exception to the rule."

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What god are you talking about, and who taught you that creation needs a creator, you have got to straighten out your ideas.

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Hi all atheists.

I am Yrger, and I am addressing this post to all atheists:


"There are three ways man comes to know the existence of god:

1. By man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process.
2. By reading the Bible for Christians and Orthodox Jews, and the Koran for Muslims.
3. By meditation.


I know god exists by the No. 1 way.

Very briefly:
a. Man is a transient entity i.e. he is here today and then after some years of life like as much as 90 years plus, he dies.
b. The transient existence of man inevitably implicates the existence of god as the permanent self-existent creator and operator of man and the universe and everything transient.
c. So, we are the evidence for the existence of god.
d. Therefore god exists.


You atheists are denying the existence of the biblical god.

Here is my definition of god grounded on man's intelligence and his rational faculty and his reasoning process:
God is the permanent self-existent container of all things, and the creator and operator of man and the universe and everything that is not god Himself.

I didn't come to that definition of god by searching the bible.

Suppose you take a break from the bible, and employ your intelligence and rational faculty and reasoning process: to examine god as defined above (reproduced below):
"God is the permanent self-existent container of all things, and the creator and operator of man and the universe and everything that is not god Himself."

Then you will update and upgrade your concept of god.

@DocSavage [quote]An unguided natural force, fits into what we have.[/quote]
Evolution isn't really unguided, it's guided by the princople of "survival of the fittest". Random mutations that increase a specimen's probability of survival are more likely to be carried through to the next generation than those mutations that are harmful. Evolution is not teleological however.

@Lynda70
We got lucky.

@DocSavage Every description of a god or explanation of a god seriously understates the magnitude of the universe. To think that a creator wastes a moment designing an oak leaf or a mountain lion is absurd.

Believers simply have no sense of scale

@redredred
It’s their perspective. Their point of view

@yrger I don’t see much difference between the Bible and the works of Lovecraft.

@DocSavage now i have to see that all day long and into my nightmares....thanks

@DocSavage Hi Doc, you say: We evolved. Bigger brains, opposable thumbs. All god had to do was get the ball rolling.

You are talking evolution, may I ask you what ultimately started the evolution ball rolling, I say ultimately, that means beyond which no more going to another cause that is not the last last last cause beyond which no more cause is available.

@yrger
Natural course of things.
Say, that god is the mindless, unguided energy that caused the Big Bang. Everything following that simply fell into place due to the laws of physics.
Elements were fused, particles combined because of gravity, and so on. We already know this began billions of years ago. Even life, was not impossible. Abiogenesis explains how natural chemicals could over time become self replicating molecules under the right conditions and evolve.
The universe is more than large enough for more than one “ one chance in a million” to happen.
If your looking for some ultimate intelligence, that set it all of deliberately.
It doesn’t seem to be there, and realistically it doesn’t need to be.

@yrger
As I stated earlier. The definition of god depends on what you want from it.
My view of what god could be, in no way comes from the bible, quite the opposite. When asked, most people want to know first off , the origin of the universe. What or who made the world we live in ? We know we’re here, how and why is the ultimate question.
The only evidence we can observe of it, is the expanding galaxies, and the background radiation. Doesn’t tell us what started it all.
Reason says there was a catalyst. Religion says it was deliberate. I don’t see it as deliberate, but I do see the evidence of a catalyst.
Nothing to do with the bible or religion.

[quote]Hi Doc, you say:
"If your looking for some ultimate intelligence, that set it all of deliberately.
It doesn’t seem to be there, and realistically it doesn’t need to be."
[/quote]

Hi Doc, I said this earlier, but I will say it again:

1. There is always existence. True.
2. This means that there is no such thing as non-existence or nothingness. True.
3. We humans are instances of transient existence, i.e. we exist for a time then we are gone. True.
4. Instances of transient existence ulltimately and inevitably: implicate the existence of an entity that is pure permanent and self-existing existence. True.
5. This pure permanent self-existing existence cannot commit suicide or self-extinction, even if it wants to. True.
6. Wherefore it exists, and I call it, god. True.
7. And it is the creator and operator of everything that is not itself the pure permanent self-existing existence. True.

@yrger how can you say true to things that aren't?

@yrger Appending the word "true" does not magically make the preceding claim true.

Atheists are always angry and disgruntled, theists are always happy and thankful to god.

I am so happy that I have made an exposition in five steps to come to the pure permanent self-existing entity that is god.

1. There is always existence. True.
2. This means that there is no such thing as non-existence or nothingness. True.
3. We humans are instances of transient existence, i.e. we exist for a time then we are gone. True.
4. Instances of transient existence ulltimately and inevitably: implicate the existence of an entity that is pure permanent and self-existing existence. True.
5. This pure permanent self-existing existence cannot commit suicide or self-extinction, even if it wants to. True.
6. Wherefore it exists, and I call it, god. True.
7. And it is the creator and operator of everything that is not itself the pure permanent self-existing existence. True

Hey atheists, how can you stand life and make a life for yourselves and your loved ones: when you are always angry and disgruntled?