If it's morally acceptable to kill animals for the sensory pleasure of eating meat, is it also ok to kill them for other sensory pleasures?

@spjennifer Yeah, plants don't have nerves or any comparable structures. Even if they did, meat consumption kills wayyyyy more plants because livestock has to be fed.

@spjennifer i think though, there are good enough alternatives to meat and then also so much meat is wasted.
It is nit the same as when we were hunter gatherers catching our own meal. The question is the ethics of it, and as a meat eater i do feel bad about killing an animal for food, i do think about it.

@BlueVeins You may well be right but what if plants are alien creatures that we don't fully understand but are actually sentient? The last vegan who derided me for eating meat was wearing pretty expensive leather heels and carrying a nice leather purse, when I questioned her where she thought the leather came from? she walked away in a huff, she didn't go home barefoot or with her possessions in a paper bag though...

@spjennifer
It plants are sentient, then they're wasting an unbelievable amount of energy for very little benefit. Us humans are anomalously intelligent ofc, but we use 25% of our body's energy to fuel our brains, and we use that power to strategize and plan and weigh decisions carefully. Plants don't demonstrate these behaviors, and thus would get extremely little benefit from sentience.

Besides, if plants are sentient, then we should go vegan anyway to kill fewer plants.


Maybe it was used? Maybe she bought it before going vegan? I mean leather is bad, but throwing it away won't un-kill the animal.

@BabyLonia I never said I felt good about killing animals for food, but the fact is, Man is a Carnivore, we have eaten meat for sustenance since the dawn of Man's time on Earth. In Neanderthal times, Man needed meat to keep fat on them in winter climes to help keep them warm for survival because they mostly lived in cold damp caves. I suspect that it's somehow built into our DNA to eat meat to provide the food and minerals our bodies need to survive.

@BlueVeins Come on now, you have to know I was being facetious and yes, a little sarcastic, I don't actually believe that. I don't think you'd find many Vegans amongst the Inuit who live in the far North though, simply because it's hard to grow vegetables and fruit there, they eat meat and fish as do we. Man is at the top of the food chain and we're not going to stop eating meat anytime soon. As repulsive as this may be to you, it's a sad fact of life, Man has always eaten meat and will probably continue to do so for as long as we're around, modern convenience has simply made it easier to acquire, cook and consume it...

As for the lady vegan, it sure didn't look like she was the type to wear used goods. She more than likely drove home in her BMW with leather seats too

@spjennifer
Well, it's only the second most absurd thing you've said so far. How was I to know?


That depends on you and me, my dawg. I'm a man, I've chosen to stop eating meat. There are a small minority of people who biologically can't eat meat, but the vast majority of us can. It's true that some people don't currently have access to a healthy vegan diet due to economic and geopolitical factors, but the nice thing about economics and geopolitics is that they're both human inventions and we can collectively change them at will. The only thing preventing some 99% of ppl from cutting out meat entirely is the fact that we as a people choose not to do it.

@BlueVeins Do you realistically think this is something new? Men have forced women to have sex with them since Caveman times, so how have we "evolved"? I wasn't "using evolution as moral justification" simply stating facts, Man eats meat and always has...

@spjennifer So if you agree that it's a bad thing, should we stop doing it? Or should we keep doing bad stuff?

@BlueVeins Whether it's good or bad doesn't really enter into the equation, it's a matter of survival in many cases. Good for you if you've stopped eating meat, I sincerely hope it works out for you and that you remain healthy from it. In the mean time, the majority of us will continue to consume meat, good or bad as you feel that may be...

You'd also be foolish in assuming that the cultivation of non-organic fruits and vegetables is without its own perils to our planet in terms of water consumption, erosion and soil toxicity, most of our vegetables are not grown locally but on massive farms where every aspect of the growth is monitored and controlled using machines, pesticides and fertilizers...

@spjennifer
Not for the vast majority of people in the developed world tho


2 years in and I've never been better!


Good thing animal feed is all grown in little community gardens that don't consume any resources and pesticides are nothing more than a distant memory!

@BlueVeins


Again you're trying to put words in my mouth, I never said otherwise, it's simply that many vegans seem to feel the need to belittle meat eaters because we're "damaging the planet" and "killing poor animals" but fail to understand that they are too. Listen, none of us is perfect nor is any modern means of feeding 8 Billion people and it will only get worse as our Population increases. If you feel good about eating only fruits and veggies, good, but don't try and make all meat eaters out as terrible animal killers, that's all I'm saying here...

@spjennifer Just responding to your original response, some plants actually depend on animals to eat them so they can spread seeds. They can feel and sense things but not feel as in what we're used to. Plants can't move so they evolved without necessary things to feel pain. Animals though, they move so they instinctively know when there's trouble even though they can't tell what that trouble might be. If you raise your fist to a dog or cat, it will either get aggressive or shrink back.

When there's animals, we have to figure out more and more ways to feed entire populations to support supply/demand issues because they don't just grow on trees.

This means stuffing animals with growth hormones, having cows be pregnant every day of their lives until their insides have collapsed on the outside and figure out how to milk to fit so much demand for our food.

It's not sustainable which is why they are trying to figure out lab grown meat. People hide behind veganism for lab grown meat but the problem is a more dire one, animal farming isn't sustainable as people think and slowly the world is running out of resources.

We're losing topsoil slowly by the year, they're now saying that by the year of 2050, we may actually have no resources left. The American diet is unstainable and more and more people are eating like Americans.

@spjennifer I ain't sayin' that anyone's perfect my dawg, my point is that veganism causes much less damage to the environment and sentient life than an omnivorous diet. I don't even think most omnis are bad people, I think good people will do bad things if it's normalized by society.

@BlueVeins It has been normalized since the late 1800's so it would take some massive catastrophic event for things to change now, something like a mass extinction event or we run out of resources like water. We no longer have the ability to feed all the population we have through normal farming where people actually work their own land, there are just too many of us. I think it's the Corporations that are to blame, mostly in the name of profit. Perhaps one day what was predicted by movies such as Soylent Green may one day happen?

@SatanBurger


Sadly, this is exactly what's happening but I don't see a way at this time for it to change much, it would take a mass extinction event to reduce the population enough for something to be done about it.


Agreed, and I think what will eventually cause the downfall will be a lack of fresh water as it is the most basic need to sustain life, without water, nothing survives, not Humans, not animals, not plants. The reason more and more people are eating like Americans is because the American Corporations are driving it to increase their profits, the planet and Mankind be damned.