I Fully Support Julian Assange And Everything He Stands For

VendettA12 -- As Conceptualclarity pointed out, you have your facts in error regarding the Plame affair. Additionally, people on all sides "Leak" information all the time. Whoever leaked in the Plame affair, probably Armitage, disclosed no undercover agents. Valery Plame was not at the time, if she ever had been, an undercover agent or Case Officer and the leak did nothing to put her in danger. Her husband lied in his public statements about what he found on his Africa trip, which was approved by his wife for political purposes to begin with. Additionally, a single leak does not equate to the random theft and publication of hundreds of thousands of emails and "cables" by the military and the State Department.

I personally supported the war in Iraq for reasons I have written about extensively -- if you really care, you can find them on EP. My main complaint in Iraq is that we were not brutal enough and swift enough in putting down the insurrectionists after we had defeated the Iraqi government and military and we made some really dumb moves in not coopting some of the people and groups who would have supported us in reconstruction, making them enemies.

I opposed the war in Afghanistan, and President Bush's decision not to fight a full blown war there made sense at the time -- no foreign military has never triumphed in Afghanistan for many reasons but mostly because of the terrain and the tribal nature of the people. Ultimately we will leave Afghanistan as every other army has done, without achieving our long term ob<x>jectives. We should have just nuced them and turned the entire place into a glass parking lot. They want to live in 7th century conditions without roads or electricity, medicine, etc and we should simply let them do so while monitoring them to ensure another group like Al Qaeda does not take advantage and if or when they do, bomb them back to the stone age.

In response to soursweet -- I did not and do not call for murder or any other individual act of violence against anyone. What I did call for was for a sovereign nation, the United States, to act in its own behalf in response to what I personally believe was an act of war that gives aid and comfort to the terrorist enemies of the United States.

Furthermore, you must be smart enough to recognize hyperbole when you see it. I intentionally made a provocative and hyperbolic statement as a means of emphasizing to people who refuse to see, that the acts of Wikileaks and Julian Assange are serious acts that intentionally sought to do damage to my country, in fact were acts of war, and are deserving of an aggressive response appropriate to an act of war. Additionally, my encouragement to my Government to act was made in the full knowledge that the current administration of President Barrack Obama would not act aggressively and would act only through the courts.

In response to wannashareit -- The terrible act of criminal violence committed in Arizona this weekend were the individual acts of a man who is insane and acted out of his paranoid psychosis. No conservative, Republican, Tea Partier, or anyone else encouraged or caused him to commit his criminal, nor did they or we encourage any act of violence. Again, those of you on the left who are smart enough to understand the difference between political rhetoric, hyperbole, and encouragement to violence know that we did not encourage any such act and choose to use a tragedy for your own political aims.

Lickitysplit, I had been meaning to say this to you. Although you are right that Assange's deeds are an abomination worthy of severe punishment because they endanger the lives of many good people and give aid to the very worst people, there is an irony. The justification given by Mr. Bareback-Sleep-Sex-With-A-Woman-Who-Hasn't-Consented-To-Bareback for his leaks is the standard leftist view, no doubt held by the three unpersuasive posters in this thread, that the US military and foreign policy establishment is some sort of cesspool of unfathomable evil. The documents have provided a broad view of the US military/diplomatic apparatus that sharply undermines that leftist view. The documents have shown the US military and foreign policy people to have substantial integrity and nobility in what they are trying to do, and it is OTHER countries' governments that come out looking sleazy. This doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but in the past leftists would have ridiculed me for seeing things that way. Now they are reduced to arguing maybe Assange has been inept and somehow overlooked the really dirty stuff against the US that surely has to be there somewhere.

As for "invasion and occupation of Afghanistan," the US in 2001 sent few troops into Afghanistan. We intervened almost exclusively with air power in Afghanistan's civil war on the side of a vastly better set of people, the northern Alliance, against the genocidal Taliban regime. It has since then been necessary to send a lot of troops to Afghanistan but that country has never been under our "occupation," (which would include running the country). We helped liberate the country, and a fair number of other countries have joined us in holding up the military end of Afghanistan.

In Iraq, we turned the government back over to the Iraqis a long time ago, and even before then when there was an occupation, the US allowed the Iraqis to block the stationing of Turkish troops in Iraq, which we were in favor of. And the Iraqis were allowed to pick a leader for the first post-occupation government who was not the one we were hoping for. so things are much different from how you portray them.

Wow, so we're not occupying those countries? That's fascinating! Our troops are there, with guns, killing perceived threats and trying to stay alive. You don't consider this "occupying", but what would you call it if another country's army were to set up shop in your hometown, killing "bad guys" and walking around armed. I guess that would be ok with you, as long as they promised they were there to do good? I suspect if there were a foreign army in your town, you would pick up arms and fight to the death. In your mind, that would make you a patriot. I'm confused though, what is the difference between that depiction of a "patriot" and the media's depiction of an "insurgent" in Iraq or Afghanistan? Maybe you can help explain it to me? Please?

The double standard is breathtaking. In your twisted worldview, we're allowed to do things that we would never allow other countries to do to us.

VendettA12, your facts are all wrong. Valerie Plame's identity was exposed to the general public by Robert Novak, and before he died he told the whole story, which I believe was corroborated by the investigators. His info on her came from Richard Armitage, Colin Powell's aide. Armitage was not in league with Cheney, but was at odds with him over Iraq. Scooter Libby and Cheney had nothing to do with exposing Plame, and neither did Karl Rove. Libby's conviction had nothing to do with what he said about Plame. Armitage was apparently just being careless; I'm not suggesting he was out to get Plame. Don't get your history from movies or opinion blogs.

And I agree with Lickitysplit that deplorable acts are not what we are seeing these days by the US government, while there will always be corruption or atrocities by individuals.

Yes, I'm familiar with that explanation. Very well rehearsed, bravo! You must be referring to the movie they made about it. No, I haven't seen it, but I wouldn't ob<x>ject to watching it.

I think it's funny that when it comes to Assange,so many want to shoot the messenger. We've bankrupted our country by invading and occupying two countries which did not attack us. Our actions have directly led to the death of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, including several thousand of our own "heroes"... care to guess how many innocent children have died because of our macho invasions? I don't want to guess, but you go ahead..... all of this doesn't get you people mad, but Assange releasing embarrassing info, THAT CAN'T BE TOLERATED.

lol.

Patriotic scum.

The conservative right wing reaction to Assange is ridiculous. Where was this vitriol during Plamegate? Oh, that's different, because Cheney and Scooter are republicans, so it's somehow ok for them to "out" undercover CIA agents.... right....

A government that is allowed to operate under such a massive cloud of secrecy is doomed to commit deplorable acts. The more that wikileaks exposes, the more the government has to fear that it's actions will see the light of day. As long as they're not leaking the names and locations of operatives (like Cheney and Scooter) then these leaks are good things. If the US government is so deeply embarrassed and ashamed of these things being leaked, perhaps the answer isn't to muffle the messenger but maybe change their policies?

Leftist are all for anything that will harm, or harm the reputation of the United States. They used to be liberals, but they degenerated into something else. I miss good old fashion liberals.
Julian Assange and Warren have both commited grave crimes and should be punished.
**When a mentally deranged person gets a hold of a gun and manages to kill some people, it does not represent the destruction of the US from the inside, it represents a mentally deranged person with a gun who managed to kill some people. It happens all the time all over the world.

The insane responses to irony, metaphor, and hyperbole demonstrate their lack of understanding. Further, it demonstrates their inability to grasp even the most outrageously hyperbolic states much less the "nuances" they so love to discuss. If that gives them openings to exploit, it also drives their blood pressure sky high. Aha! Maybe that is one means of eliminating them -- give them heart attacks and strokes resulting from blood pressure spikes! ;-) How's that for irony?

aw, did that hurt your patriotic pride? Cry more.

We weren't attacked by Iraq or Afghanistan, you twit. If you think our invasion and occupation of those countries is in any way justified, then you are admitting that we should also invade and occupy Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, since those two countries can be blamed just as much for any attack against the US. Are you saying we should occupy those two countries as well? Or are you admitting that you are an ignorant hypocrite? The choice is yours.

The dead were not yet cold and the survivors not yet in the hospital emergency rooms before one left wing Democrat Congresswoman was making public statements calling for the banning of guns. While most American's saw this event as a terrible tragedy, many liberals and progressives saw an opportunity to attack conservatives, Republicans, the Tea Party, Sarah Palin, and others on the right. I was shocked at how quickly the left responded with their attacks on the right.

As I have said before, I have little doubt that there has been wrongdoing by Americans and possibly even official wrongdoing. But I see no evidence of systematic, intentional, planned wrongdoing by Americans or the American Government. Furthermore, when wrongdoing by Americans is brought to light, the American Government acts to investigate and to punish the guilty for their crimes in accordance with the law.

Again, Poe's law. Look it up. Your party has been infiltrated by so many insane baboons that it's impossible to tell if a ridiculous statement coming from a Republican is an attempt at humor/satire, or if they actually believe the batshit crazy things they say. Sometimes I read actual news headlines about Republicans and I can't tell if it's an Onion headline, that tells you all you need to know about the Republican party.

We should nuke them... such a nuanced position. A couple hundred, a couple thousand, maybe even many thousands of "terrorists" (pick a number) live in that country, so you want to annihilate every living being in the country. How many terrorists have to live there for the collateral damage to be tolerable? Can we go ahead and nuke every country that has terrorists in their midst? Places like the US?

You're a demented old fool.

Imager - while you and I disagree on almost everything political, I did believe you were at least literate. However, you clearly failed either to read or to comprehend what I wrote. I did not in fact advocate violence in my statement. I merely pointed out a fact of law and suggested that Mr Assange live in fear. Perhaps if you reread my statement enough times you will understand what I said rather than what your liberal point of view led you to assume.

I do not believe the situation is at all funny. My answer is not intended as a joke. Is what I said a bit hyperbolic? Perhaps. However what Assange did contributes nothing to peace or justice in the world. It does nothing to make the world a better place - just the opposite, it helps terrorists, killers, and fascists who will, if they can, take away my freedom and yours through violence, killing, and terror.

Lickitysplit, your use of irony or hyperbole is giving the lefties openings to exploit.

VendettA12, I find it appalling that you blame the US for the mass murder perpetrated by the enemies of the US. It shows a total lack of fair-mindedness on your part.

"Patriotic scum"? Why don't you just go back to the swamp of far left haters where you belong?

VendettA12 -- Wait, wait! I just had a brilliant idea, instead of nuking them, lets just choose to abort them all -- every last one of them. Since you have no problem killing babies through abortion, you should find that perfectly acceptable, right?

I agree and that is an appropriate distinction. Isn't it ironic that the leftist people who portray US foreign policy as typically criminal in nature are supporters of the real criminals like Hugo Chavez?

VendettA12 -- you people on the left are so gullible and doctrinaire. Are you really that incapable of understanding hyperbole? Nuanced my ass. You wouldn't know nuanced if it ran over your foot. LMAOFOFL

VendettA12 -- you people on the left are so gullible and doctrinaire. Are you really that incapable of understanding hyperbole? Nuanced my ass. You wouldn't know nuanced if it ran over your foot. LMAOFOFL

As shown this last weekend, there is no need for outsiders to wipe you out (and I do NOT want that to happen!!), you are quite capable of doing that amongst each other. Listen to the Sheriffs speech. The man is 200% right!

Aw, and I was SO looking forward to your answer to the question I asked, your explanation of the difference between a "patriot" and an "insurgent".

crickets chirping....

Gee, another pro-gun rightwinger advocating death for someone he disagrees with and pointing the finger at Peza. Credibility: zero.

You clearly swallow whatever your spin your government puts on anything. You clearly haven't read the wikileaks in context, as they prove my point.

Please note, the only person to "advocate" shooting anyone has been a non-American leftist. Good-O Peza. Keep up the great job.

Thank you. And a fine brew it is indeed. Better supped at the local gun range and coffee bar with a .40 cal semiautomatic in hand.

Is the problem that 'we on the left' are too gullible.... or is the problem that conservatives are fucking nuts? I call Poe's law on you.

Calling for murder doesn't entail any banning or flagging on EP. Shows how tolerant Liberals are.

It amazes me that the man is still breathing...

lol you're the one who should be gangbanged by Isis members & then tortured to death.

Tea Potty Party !

Let's shoot some leftists !!

I leave you two together, enjoy your tea.

funny? why?

hahahahahaha

hahahahaha