Bernie announces he is running again, what do you think?

@Budwick I'll take lessons from people who are smarter than me gladly and I'll let you know when I meet them.

AOC understands what a top marginal rate of tax is and you don't. Lol.

BTW, plenty of econonists including Paul Krugman have defended AOC's statement. They are Middle aged white guys too so maybe you will take them seriously.

@Burnley123
[quote]This point is really laboured given that its a secondary issue but you are sticking with it because you think you have a huge gotcha. You don't. The Soviet Union was the second biggest economy is the post-war period.[/quote]

I stayed with the Soviet point because it was the first thing you mentioned in your previous comment. And now you claim the USSR had the second largest economy in the world. In this, you are naively accepting the “official” figures (about 50% of the US economy), which have since been shown to have been great exaggerations. The truth of the matter is that the Soviet GDP was probably no more than about 15% that of the USA, and this is well borne out by the fact that today, the Russian GDP is about 8% that of the US, less than that of Canada or South Korea, and only slightly larger than that of Australia or Spain. Russia has been aptly named a “1-dimensional superpower” that was [i]never[/i] an economic rival to the US, only a military one, as I said at the outset.

[c=#008099]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)[/c]

[quote]The US top marginal tax rate was never below 70% until the Reagan period.[/quote]

Really? There was no regular income tax [i]at all[/i] in the US at all until 1913.

[quote]The point beying made is that high marginal taxes are not actually a disincentive to growth.[/quote]

That’s because almost no one actually [i]paid[/i] the 70 or 90% top marginal rate. As I have already pointed out, there were/are plenty of loopholes for the very wealthy to avoid them. Heck, even at today’s relatively low rates, Warren Buffett famously said a few years ago that his secretary pays income taxes at a higher rate than he does.

[quote]Now, US taxes are abour 40% and growth is much lower.[/quote]

So therefore, the lower tax rate is the [i]cause[/i] of the lower growth rate, and therefore a 70% rate (which would presumably give the government more money to spend) would increase economic growth? But the government is [i]already[/i] spending much more money as a percentage of GDP than it did when the taxes were high, as the graph I posted earlier shows.

[quote]The graph you posted about % of govt spending and GDP is evidence that America has its priorities wrong.[/quote]

Your comment completely missed (or dodged) the point of my question. Whatever you may think about priorities, how did the US government get so much extra money to spend in the first place, so that it is now spending about 35% of GDP (when the top marginal tax rate is about 40%), as compared with only about 20% of GDP when the top rate was 90%?
The answer really is quite easy.

And regarding the graph you posted of top marginal tax rates in the US and some European countries, I notice that the US tax rate was/is generally lower than the UK’s (more so if you take into account the European VAT, which far exceeds any US sales tax), yet in your very next graph of GDP history, I notice that the US rate of GDP increase is higher than the UK’s. Hmmm.

[quote]BTW, your poetry is as bad as your economic analysis. Well done for trying though.[/quote]

Thanks for the compliment. Since my economic analysis is excellent, I guess my poetry is too. 🤭
But it is true that with a few exceptions, not many lefties like my poetry, but I suspect it is because of content rather than form. So for their benefit, I sometimes post this limerick, which meets more with their approval. 😂

[i]There once was an orange-faced fascist,
Whose words were the crudest and brashest.
Not JUST were they racist,
But all-around basest,
And actions? His ALWAYS were rashest.
[/i]

@Budwick
[quote]Obsession with AOC? The new congresswoman making an ass of herself daily?[/quote]

@Northwest I think unity counts both ways though. If Sanders did win the nomination, would centrist liberals vote for him in the general. I'd hope they would.

@Burnley123 I would have voted for him. Centrists were more concerned about Trump, than scoring points. Generally speaking, centrists are about the bigger goals, than point scoring.

@Northwest I certainly think you and others here would vote for Bernie but I don't know if they all would.

Here we've had seven MPs resign from the party over disputed with Corbyn. This is in theory down to Brexit and anti semetism allegations but these are people who worked to undermine corbyn from the start. They've also openly appealed for pro remain Conservatives to join their project. I know this is not the same as in America but I think you might get some centrist who argue that Trump and Bernie are equally bad so we need to abstain.

The left and centre left need each other if we are gonna win. Differences do matter but so does strategy.

@BlueVeins [quote]Government loans are part of the reason why colleges are so damn bloated as it is;[/quote]
This is really not true.

And we can do free (or at least, sensibly affordable) college. Other nations do.

@BlueVeins It works in Europe. All of his ideas actually and are not even that radical. In Britain he'd be centre left and in Sweden he'd be dead centre.

@Burnley123 Oh she has a cult. She screwed Bernie and cheated the DNC nom and handed the non-establishment vote over to.. The friggin GOP and Trump. She bares much more the blame for Trump's election than Bernie and the states lost by Hillary to Trump reflects that. Bernie was much more fit to rub against Trump than Hillary but here lovers want to blame him when it was her that caused the cluster fuck. And she still won't fade away despite how clearly toxic she is to any cause.

@luckranger71 Wow, I totally agree with everything you say--this is all exactly what I have been telling people...and I did...!!!

@Burnley123 Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Sanders for Trump's win. That's squarely on all our shoulders. But I'm not sure he helps. He holds this venerated "Ben & Jerry-like" status, where everyone adores him but there's just nothing really nutritionally satisfying about it.

He really sounds very similar or AOC in his policies and lack of substantial suggestion as how to make them a reality. But where she's openly mocked for her naivete, he's put on a progressive pedestal. I like Sanders. I just don't think he can or necessarily should become president.

@SW-User Not young people like AOC.

@GunSmoke9 lol.

@Burnley123 Do you know what Bernie is pushing for? If you do, how will he pay for it all?

@GunSmoke9 Well. What most progressives seem to suggest regarding "paying for it all" is A) money saved from stopping EndlessWar(TM) and B) money gained from actually taxing corporations.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost us up to 2T$ when we consider interest as we're doing it on borrowed money.

And Amazon paid no taxes on 12B$ in profits. And they're not alone.

@CopperCicada Still won't work. The rich and corporations will find a way to hide their money or use loopholes. Fine, fix our tax system, but cost will filter down to everyone. You have democrats wanting to give Medicare to illegals. How much will the cost rise when more illegals cross our borders?

@Graylight Run Bernie run.

@JoeyFoxx [quote] literally half the country[/quote] This is incorrect. Hell, not even half the voters in 2016 disagreed.

@JoeyFoxx I totally agree--my ticket is Amy Klobashire and Jon Tester, moderate, Midwestern and younger...we need to defeat trump, and being too extreme will not win (and I supported Bernie last time as well)

@SW-User I'm not sure calling bernie supporters rabid will help heal the division lol

@Burnley123 I ain't no mediator! lol. Ah, even with using flowery words, there's no hope of healing the division. If it makes you feel better, I can comfortably say Trump supporters are just as rabid about their man, as Bernie supporters are. Frankly, anyone who is so far up the ass of their chosen candidate is someone who isn't capable of critical and reasoned thinking IMO. Yeah, I know I'm not going to win the popular vote here. 😝

@Burnley123 at the point where they're rabid, I dont think anything heals that division except, you know, death of some sort

@SW-User People should listen to her with their eyes closed. So her beauty doesn't distract from what she is selling.

@GunSmoke9 there are some similiarities

@lorne13 Between what?

@SumKindaMunster What exactly is your political view? It's not like I'm a Bernie supporter btw.

I have my own reasons for not supporting Bernie - I just think yours make little sense.

@QuixoticSoul Sorry, not biting. Bye! 👋

@SumKindaMunster k, toodles.

@CopperCicada I think that's something peopke seem to be missing. You can also argue that he's still the most strident and authentic advocate of those policies. That would be the main thing for me.

@SmartKat I would have a similar attitude.

I'd vote for any left candidate in the Primary but any Democrat in the general.

Chang and Gabbard are long shots so that means Warren and Sanders are the only two on the left who could win. I think Bernie has more chance than Liz as things stand but I think a lot of Bernie voters would switch to Warren if her campaign did look stronger.

I don't really like Biden or Harris but I think any other human being alive is better than Trump and I've got no time for left abstainers.

@SW-User He was the real winner of the primaries the last time. Until the lying and cheating stole it from him.

@MethDozer Exactly. I went third party for that election.

@Spokeskitties75 who's your choice?

@gol979 I don’t really have one yet... it’s too early. I have a mixed political view both conservative and liberal

@Spokeskitties75 cool 👍

@Rattlesnake yeah, that free shit is for fossil fuel company subsidies and bailing out criminal banks

@MethDozer AOC doesn’t have nearly the experience level to be running for President... aside from her kookiness.

[i]although she still is hot[/i]

@Spokeskitties75 Her lack of experience is the least of it IMHO.

@JT123 Which part of Bernman's platform has the "means of production" bits? Because I don't see it.

Edit: lmao oh no, blocked by a fragile conservative - however shall I go on 🙄