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Roundandroundwego · 61-69
Having a war in Europe, bombing a gas pipeline, that was successful for America.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Roundandroundwego America did not start this war, Russia did.
No-one yet knows who sabotaged that pipeline, nor why. There are anonymous conspiracy-"theories", barely even hypotheses, on the Internet that the US Government is the guilty party, and it would be interesting to flush out their sources. The Kremlin?
For America to have done as you allege would be absurd. The USA still thinks itself Top Dog with limited respect for the rest of the world but to start a war in Europe, or to act against Europe generally, would be self-defeating.
No-one yet knows who sabotaged that pipeline, nor why. There are anonymous conspiracy-"theories", barely even hypotheses, on the Internet that the US Government is the guilty party, and it would be interesting to flush out their sources. The Kremlin?
For America to have done as you allege would be absurd. The USA still thinks itself Top Dog with limited respect for the rest of the world but to start a war in Europe, or to act against Europe generally, would be self-defeating.
ididntknow · 51-55, M
@ArishMell But that’s where you are wrong, America, did start the war
ididntknow · 51-55, M
@ArishMell why is Germany now being de industrialised ? Germany now buys its gas from America, at 5 times the price of Russian gas, who stood to gain from the gas pipeline being destroyed, Think about it, Biden said he would stop the gas from Russia, so did Victoria Nuland
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@ididntknow Please explain with real evidence how the United States of America ordered, suggested to or advised President Putin to invade Ukraine, why it (USA) would do so, the immediate purpose of destroying the nation; and for what ultimate aims, presumably agreed, for both Russia and the USA beyond that.
Then having encouraged the invasion explain why the US Government would spend considerable amounts of American tax-payers' money in arming Ukraine, and allow Sweden and Finland to join the US-led NATO.
If the USA wanted Russia to take over Ukraine surely it would simply stand back and let it happen, safe in its splendid isolation.
Then having encouraged the invasion explain why the US Government would spend considerable amounts of American tax-payers' money in arming Ukraine, and allow Sweden and Finland to join the US-led NATO.
If the USA wanted Russia to take over Ukraine surely it would simply stand back and let it happen, safe in its splendid isolation.
ididntknow · 51-55, M
@ArishMell you clearly have no understanding of what happened in Ukraine or Russia previously, I suggest you look at some history, maybe 2008 would be a good place to start, you seem to be getting a lot of your information from mainstream media, which is never a good idea
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@ididntknow I far rather believe "mainstream media" reporting on, [i]and analysing[/i], [i]both[/i] sides of conflicts etc, than mere opinions thrown around social-media sites.
Perhaps the "media" you attack are ones with commercial or political axes to grind, such as supporting only one side in the USA's two-only-party internal politics. I would ignore those but I don't live in America anyway .
In fact Russia's invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with its annexing of Crimea, but it did not go further at the time.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of Ukraine itself within its own land, Russia is acting totally illegally in a huge land-grab.
The USA does have a terrible record of trying to control other countries - you'd think she'd have learnt from her experiences in Vietnam - but the idea she started the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just silly.
It does just not stack up to any logic. The USA would have no need, interest or advantage in encouraging Putin's expansionism; and for it to encourage the invasion then support the Ukrainians against it is beyond illogical.
Perhaps the "media" you attack are ones with commercial or political axes to grind, such as supporting only one side in the USA's two-only-party internal politics. I would ignore those but I don't live in America anyway .
In fact Russia's invasion of Ukraine started in 2014 with its annexing of Crimea, but it did not go further at the time.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of Ukraine itself within its own land, Russia is acting totally illegally in a huge land-grab.
The USA does have a terrible record of trying to control other countries - you'd think she'd have learnt from her experiences in Vietnam - but the idea she started the Russian invasion of Ukraine is just silly.
It does just not stack up to any logic. The USA would have no need, interest or advantage in encouraging Putin's expansionism; and for it to encourage the invasion then support the Ukrainians against it is beyond illogical.
JSul3 · 70-79
@ididntknow Putin invaded Ukraine. Ukraine did not invade Russia.
Putin desires to retake lands lost when the Soviet Union fell. He has stated such.
Putin desires to retake lands lost when the Soviet Union fell. He has stated such.
ididntknow · 51-55, M
@JSul3 why did Putin invade Ukraine ?
JSul3 · 70-79
@ididntknow
Why did Russia invade Ukraine?
Russia surprised the world on February 24, 2022, by invading Ukraine, starting a brutal battle that is still raging today.
Russia's President Vladimir Putin has given varying public explanations for why he launched the invasion.
Here are the reasons Putin gave, how they match with reality, and the other likely reasons why Russia sent its armed forces into an independent, sovereign nation.
Putin sees Ukraine as Russian
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, before declaring itself an independent country, cementing the move in a referendum days before the USSR collapsed in December 1991.
The country has maintained its independence ever since. But Putin still refers to Ukraine as Russian, and denies it's a nation in its own right. He told then-US President George W. Bush in 2008 that Ukraine wasn't even a country.
Putin spoke to former Fox News host Tucker Carlson in an interview released on February 8, 2024, where he argued Russia has a historic claim to Ukraine.
Stephen Hall, a Russian politics expert at the University of Bath in the UK, said many Russians still hold this view, and that "it isn't just the Kremlin."
Hall said Russia sees Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, as the "mother of Russian cities," and for Putin he can't have that being outside his own country.
Ukraine in order to back up its argument to being a great power that has existed for millennia.
Without it "Russia can't claim a thousand years of history because Kyiv was already in existence 1,200 years ago, when Moscow was a forest," he said.
Fifteen of today's sovereign nations were once part of the Soviet Union, and experts say Russia cares more about Ukraine than nearby Belarus, as well as other former USSR countries in central Asia.
Hall said "Putin's opinion has always been that Ukrainians and Russians are the same people, that they're part of the Slavic Brotherhood of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine.
For Putin, "Russia has a right to rule Ukraine. Russians and Ukrainians are one nation and one people. They were illegitimately and artificially separated when the Soviet Union collapsed, and he blames the West for trying to pull Ukraine out of Russia's natural friendship," Taylor said.
At the start of the invasion, Putin blamed NATO's expansion into eastern Europe for forcing his hand.
Hall said the idea that NATO is threatening Russia by expanding towards its borders is "very much part of the Russian propaganda narrative."
He also pointed out that NATO doesn't simply expand, but that countries apply to join, usually motivated by a perceived outside threat. In eastern Europe, that threat often comes from Russia.
Lithuania's prime minister, for example, told Insider in February that her country joined NATO "because of Putin."
Putin has used the NATO line to try to convince an international audience who might already have strong misgivings about the Western military alliance, Hall said.
And if Russia can engage with even a minority who feel this way "it creates an electoral voice for Russia to use to try and stop Western engagement," he said.
Hall added that even if NATO was expanding "that doesn't justify what Russia has done in Ukraine."
Ukraine's own ties with NATO deepened after 2014, when pro-Russian forces invaded eastern Ukraine, starting a conflict that continued until the 2022 invasion.
Putin blames NATO, but Taylor said he doesn't see a "coherent explanation" for how NATO's alleged expansion could lead to this war.
Before Finland joined NATO earlier this year, no new countries had joined the alliance since 2004, and even then it was "pretty tiny countries" — Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania — Taylor noted.
He also said that NATO didn't put additional troops in the region "so it wasn't like the addition of those countries created this military force on Russia's doorstep."
In fact, Taylor said that the US was cutting back on the size of its armed forces in Europe until pro-Russian forces occupied parts of Ukraine in 2014.
Source: Business Insider
Why did Russia invade Ukraine?
Russia surprised the world on February 24, 2022, by invading Ukraine, starting a brutal battle that is still raging today.
Russia's President Vladimir Putin has given varying public explanations for why he launched the invasion.
Here are the reasons Putin gave, how they match with reality, and the other likely reasons why Russia sent its armed forces into an independent, sovereign nation.
Putin sees Ukraine as Russian
Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, before declaring itself an independent country, cementing the move in a referendum days before the USSR collapsed in December 1991.
The country has maintained its independence ever since. But Putin still refers to Ukraine as Russian, and denies it's a nation in its own right. He told then-US President George W. Bush in 2008 that Ukraine wasn't even a country.
Putin spoke to former Fox News host Tucker Carlson in an interview released on February 8, 2024, where he argued Russia has a historic claim to Ukraine.
Stephen Hall, a Russian politics expert at the University of Bath in the UK, said many Russians still hold this view, and that "it isn't just the Kremlin."
Hall said Russia sees Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, as the "mother of Russian cities," and for Putin he can't have that being outside his own country.
Ukraine in order to back up its argument to being a great power that has existed for millennia.
Without it "Russia can't claim a thousand years of history because Kyiv was already in existence 1,200 years ago, when Moscow was a forest," he said.
Fifteen of today's sovereign nations were once part of the Soviet Union, and experts say Russia cares more about Ukraine than nearby Belarus, as well as other former USSR countries in central Asia.
Hall said "Putin's opinion has always been that Ukrainians and Russians are the same people, that they're part of the Slavic Brotherhood of Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine.
For Putin, "Russia has a right to rule Ukraine. Russians and Ukrainians are one nation and one people. They were illegitimately and artificially separated when the Soviet Union collapsed, and he blames the West for trying to pull Ukraine out of Russia's natural friendship," Taylor said.
At the start of the invasion, Putin blamed NATO's expansion into eastern Europe for forcing his hand.
Hall said the idea that NATO is threatening Russia by expanding towards its borders is "very much part of the Russian propaganda narrative."
He also pointed out that NATO doesn't simply expand, but that countries apply to join, usually motivated by a perceived outside threat. In eastern Europe, that threat often comes from Russia.
Lithuania's prime minister, for example, told Insider in February that her country joined NATO "because of Putin."
Putin has used the NATO line to try to convince an international audience who might already have strong misgivings about the Western military alliance, Hall said.
And if Russia can engage with even a minority who feel this way "it creates an electoral voice for Russia to use to try and stop Western engagement," he said.
Hall added that even if NATO was expanding "that doesn't justify what Russia has done in Ukraine."
Ukraine's own ties with NATO deepened after 2014, when pro-Russian forces invaded eastern Ukraine, starting a conflict that continued until the 2022 invasion.
Putin blames NATO, but Taylor said he doesn't see a "coherent explanation" for how NATO's alleged expansion could lead to this war.
Before Finland joined NATO earlier this year, no new countries had joined the alliance since 2004, and even then it was "pretty tiny countries" — Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania — Taylor noted.
He also said that NATO didn't put additional troops in the region "so it wasn't like the addition of those countries created this military force on Russia's doorstep."
In fact, Taylor said that the US was cutting back on the size of its armed forces in Europe until pro-Russian forces occupied parts of Ukraine in 2014.
Source: Business Insider