I have no idea if you can collect train miles like air miles!

@FreddieUK The idea of "competition" doesn't work anyway unless you have at least two feasible, separate ways to the same end.

There is very little on the railways where all the services on any given route are run by the same company, as your choice is then between routes. And even some of them might be operated by the same company hiding behind different brand-badges and paint schemes.

@ArishMell The mistake that those who set up the system made was to assume that competition on the railways is the same as competition on the road. There are a few routes with genuine competition (East Coast Main Line) but the competition for rail is actually from road and air. The EU regulation that said infrastructure and operation had to be separate was based on the belief that you can have competition. It works in patches on mainland Europe and the incumbent monopoly operator (usually state owned) has had to drastically reduced its fares as 'private' operators have entered the market. The private operators have often been owned by a foreign state as has happened in the UK.

@ArishMell @FreddieUK The idea of a rail network being a source of competition just doesnt fly. That would require duplication of extremely expensive infrastructure. Morso even than airlines or shipping ports.A rail network is at its heart a "Public good" Like the road network or supply of basic utilities. Its existence smooths the way of transport, commerce and population movement, improving the overall efficiency of the society. Now there are good examples of individual trains that can operate as profit makers Like the Orient Express, which has its own special lure. But these are special cases for tourism..The journey is the point..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman In Europe the tracks are owned by the state through an arm's length company and the trains operated by separate companies. Supposedly the tracks are available for anyone who wants to to run trains, but of course the reality is that apart from a few lucrative routes, the state continues to subsidise the passenger services and the private companies cream off the profits from popular routes and at profitable times.

@FreddieUK Yep. And that is as good as its going to get. The price of being able to live a distance from where you work..😷

@whowasthatmaskedman @FreddieUK That was my point: you might have some choice of routes between A and B, possibly; and they might be run by different companies; but it's not true competition.

What makes things worse in the UK is the way the railways were privatised.

They all started in the 19C as commercial entities that slowly merged, unprofitable services or linesclosed and so on; and in the 1930s the government of the day forced them all to agglomerate into four large "Groups". Still privately run though, and they all built and operated the lot: track, signalling, stations, locomotives, rolling-stock.

In 1948 (I think iot was they were nationalised as British Railways - one organisation but badly damaged by lingering effects of WW2, loss of trade to the roads, very large payroll, inefficient ways to move goods and successive Treasuries taking too much of the operating profits.

Nevertheless it was modernising itself - very painfully due to large-scale redundancies and a lot of closures - and started to make a profit.

Then all the passenger and goods services were sold off in the 1980s; but in a way that introduced short leases, "middle-men" rolling-stock leasing companies, loss of coherence and incredibly complicated ticket-sales systems.

Much of the freight and some passenger services are State-owned... by the State of Germany! So its nett profits are lost to the UK.



Now, parts of the system are at full track capacity, the Train Operating Companies struggle to meet increasing demand and maintain good service and some have been taken under government control. It is important to appreciate that no means all delays are by internal failures: far more are by external forces, including trespassers and su***des. (Deliberately edited to stave off SW's strange warning notices.)

The lastest development is the eventual re-nationalising of the railways.

I think they should have stayed in State ownership as a cohesive system, but importantly with the Goverbment as shareholder on behalf of the State, not as their manager.

.......

Regarding distances, there are now many commuters who live 100 miles and more from their work in London and other cities, where fast train services render this feasible for them.

@FreddieUK Oh yes, it was a cock-up thanks to rules made by people who do not understand business, and are easily swayed by lobbying.

Also, there are far fewer companies involved anyway, creating divisions under separate brands to appear as if different companies.

I think the two largest rail operators in the UK are First Group (which at least is British) and DB-Schenke, which is owned by the Federal Republic of Germany.

The latter runs most goods services, Cross-Country Trains (passenger) and oddly, licensing the steam-hauled main-line charter "specials".

@ArishMell CCT is run by Arriva, but they now belong to I Squared Capital (since 2024). DB Cargo has a lot of competition in the rail freight business and by no means have a monopoly these days.

I should add that only passenger services are being re-nationalised.

@FreddieUK Very difficult these days know who owns whom and where, especially as so many companies are in the clutches of mere, shallow money-traders with deliberately obscure names.

I wonder if rail freight is easier than passenger services to open up to competition by its nature.

@ArishMell Freight is a separate business to be carved off. But the passenger business is not a for profit business. Instead it supports the community in traffic control, pollution, fuel imports, parking availability. And mobility of the population for everything from job vacancies to education.😷