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Electric vehicles compared to normal

So i dont know much about evs but i like the idea of charging a car and not paying for gas. Not like i can afford to buy a new car but it got me wondering like what are the benefits or disadvantages for each?

What do people prefer and why :)
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Kiesel · 56-60, M
Well, I personally drive a luxurious truck. Have for years. Love it
Can make a 650 mile trip with no stops..

I have a good friend that has a Prius and Nissan Leaf, I’ve driven both and they’re pretty slick. For in and around town commuting, I’m a proponent of EV’s..

I see both sides of the coin though
The infrastructure that supports charging stations isn't very plentiful and is unreliable. My brother-in-law's Kia is always in the shop. Don't even ask how much he's been able to use it in the last 6 months! And I've been hearing disappointment over the longevity of the batteries.
I hope my next car will be electric, but if I totalled my CX-30 tomorrow, I'd be replacing it with another combustion
Ilovebrushinghair · 22-25, M
Don't want to be a kill joy Jess, EVs still cost you money. Electric cars still need to be charged up and that still costs money. Ok it maybe cheeper but the car is more expensive to buy. But a few more years time it will beore cost affective to run a EV.
the one thing I haven't seen mentioned in any of the comments so far - you also have to be prepared for a big financial shift with EVs at some point. right now they're subsidized to some degree and have been getting away with operating on road infrastructure that was built for petrochemical powered vehicles (and thus mostly paid for by the taxes imposed on fuels for the same vehicles - usually in the range of about 50% of the cost of a unit of fuel). EVs have just as much impact on roads and infrastructure - sometimes much more as they tend to be significantly heavier than their chemical fuel counterparts. at some point that will have to change and either the price of infrastructure upkeep will be levied more fairly on EV operators or (more likely, because it's quite difficult to noninvasivly track just how much your vehicle is used on roads) there will have to be increases on electricity prices to cover the lost revenue for those costs.
Electricity is the lingua franca of energy: we know how to store it, convert other energy to it, use it, etc.

All of the "renewable" sources tend to create electricity. So being in line with that is good.

Cons
• up-front cost
• batteries need to be more stable, cost-effective, less weight
• as mentioned, charging just not there
• some EVs have had fires related to battery issues
• the performance doesn't seem to be there for trucks, etc.

BUT
Pros
• huge change in resources & weight
+ no engine
+ no exploding fuel (gas tank/diesel tank; fuel vapors; fuel pressure; fuel pump; fuel lines)
+ no engine air for combustion (no engine air filter and housing)
+ no ignition of the air/fuel mixture (no distributor, no timing belt/chain, no spark plugs & cables)
+ no dealing with combustion exhaust gases (no emission system, no muffler to get rid of the sound of the engine explosions, no hot gases, no catalytic converter, no breaks in the exhaust leaking into the passenger compartment, no state emissions testing, no environmental hazard)
+ no camshaft
+ no wearing of the engine (no blowby, wearing of pistons, throwing rods, overheating of the head)
+ no cooling the engine block (no radiator, coolant fluid, etc.)
+ no engine lubrication (no oil, oil filter, oil pan, no changing it)
+ no need to worry about the engine block freezing

Those are huge.
Ilovebrushinghair · 22-25, M
@SomeMichGuy wow that was some detail you went into 🤣🤣🤣
It comes down to choice..
Inner city driving an electric car is prolly good.
Outback/rural Australia with charging stations few and far between not so good.

Everyone should be doing everything they can to lower their living costs.
Solar panels on the roof make sense..

What dont make sense is a country thinking it can run a base load power and compete in industry on renewable energy.
YoMomma ·
I have a hybrid car.. i like it. i really don't know what the price difference is in driving efficiency in fuel vs electric.. as it all fluctuates anyway but there is probably a blog or chart or youtube video about it somewhere
squared · 31-35, M
it’s been 3 years since i had my tesla and charging is still a pain in the ass. the supercharging stations always cost $20-30 per session, maybe more if it’s during a busy time. it takes about 20 minutes to charge up and sometime there’s a wait time if there’s it’s busy. after one year, i installed a home charging station and it really makes a difference. but that whole other 1k investment. it’s also not ideal for roadtrips because you have to plan out your stops based on the charging stations.
1490wayb · 56-60, M
someone near you is bound to own one...offer a compliment and im sure they would be happy to share their good\bad experiences
goliathtree · 56-60, M
so....electricity is free? Upgrades to your homes electric service in order to accommodate chargers are free? Rolling blackouts because we do not have enough baseload generation to support the charging requirements of huge quantities of EVs and wind and solar is an absolute myth are free?

I'll be making smoke until I die.
goliathtree · 56-60, M
@ArishMell It is more likely that the only way to serve the load required for a a fast charger (a standard outlet will take for ever) is to either have it's own service or to upgrade the entire home's service. A stand alone service is likely significantly less expensive than new wiring and panel to support the needs of the charger.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@goliathtree That was the point my friend was making, really. It will vary from country to country but I think the total power to most homes in Britain is some 20kW but the normal domestic use via the lighting and socket ring-mains is far lower. Even an electric oven is only about 7kW.

The supplier does not need make a new supply to the building, simply install extra equipment within it.

What could be the greater problem would be entire streets of homes installing high-power chargers.

The reason I could not charge a car at home, is no off-road parking. I think there are around eighty houses in the street but only about four or five have off-street parking, and coming home to find parking space outside your own house is always a gamble!
goliathtree · 56-60, M
@ArishMell Electric service is what I do for a living.
Iwillwait · M
Up front costs of an EV are steep. You're basically paying for Your fuel at the time of purchase.
Iwillwait · M
@ArishMell very low in comparison to most cat brands. This will disrupt the Auto industry here.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Iwillwait It has to do that to see off the competition from China, which tariffs apart is busy trying to flood everyone else's markets with "cheap" electric cars.
Iwillwait · M
@ArishMell Yep, North America really does not have Chinese Vehicles, however Mexico and Canada do.
swirlie · 31-35
EV sales in Canada have recently tanked, mainly because nobody in Canada wants to be seen driving a Tesla. Apart from that, the EV charging infrastructure hasn't materialized like they said it would in the beginning, which means you'd have to be very conscious of where every charging station was in your vicinity.

But that doesn't make a lot of difference either it seems. Across the northern part of the northern USA for example, many EV charging stations will appear on an onboard Google map display if you're looking for a charging station, but when you arrive at one, you'll soon discover that most EV charging stations across the northern USA have been decommissioned due to lack of use.

There have been many reports of EV cars being towed back home on the back of a tow truck and plugged in at the person's garage and the stories get more ridiculous the further you look into it.

EV's have a very limited, very specific use at this stage of their evolution which means if you have an EV that is dedicated to running back and forth to work each day and you can slow-charge it at home for 8 hours, then it would work for you. But if you used that same car to travel to parts unknown, you may be in for an expensive surprise somewhere along the way!
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@swirlie Thank you for all this - it's a fascinating subject!

I must admit I'm a bit surprised that screws and sails can work together because the screw has a fixed pitch and constant rpm. So would there be times when the sails are effectively trying to over-drive the ship? I don't know what would happen if so - I suppose something like a severe slip effect.

Going back all right: the first steam-ships in the 19C combined engine and sails, though initially they were paddle-steamers so how efficient that combination was, might be more questionable.

Odd - the site has marked your post as "Sensitive". I can't think why.
swirlie · 31-35
@ArishMell
Don't know why it's marked sensitive? It's a computer generated AI response anyway, so I don't worry about stuff like that.

I must admit I'm a bit surprised that screws and sails can work together because the screw has a fixed pitch and constant rpm. So would there be times when the sails are effectively trying to over-drive the ship? I don't know what would happen if so - I suppose something like a severe slip effect.

Whether sails are causing forward motion to occur or an additional engine and screw were providing that same forward thrust in addition to the screws in question, the fixed pitch and constant speed rpm is not actually an issue.

The reason for this is because the overall effect would be like putting the ship in a fast moving river where the ship is moving along from the flow of the water itself, but then add a second component called 'forward thrust' from the ship's screws and you'd end up with the ship moving faster OVER the stationary river bed than the water itself is moving over that same river bed.

If the river is moving at 10 knots and the ship is moving under it's own power through the fast moving water at 5 knots, the speed the ship would be moving over the stationary river bed would therefore be 15 knots, assuming the ship was also moving in the direction of the water flow.

If the ship reversed direction in the river and faced a 10 knot current flow, but then moved through water at 5 knots under it's own power, the ship would actually be moving backwards at 5 knots. (5 minus 10 equals minus 5 knots over the river bed... minus means moving backwards).

Keep in mind that water of course is a medium which the forces of the ship is acting against from all directions. If you mounted a jet engine on the ship's deck to propel the ship forward in the water, anything else that adds forward momentum such as a pair of screws or sails, merely adds to the total forward thrust component that moves the ship forward.

A screw on an ocean ship only turns at between 20 and 60 rpm at the very most, in the range from normal cruise power to full thrust. That is why it is called a 'screw' and not a propeller.

The screw literally 'screws' itself through the water like a screw nail screws itself through a piece of wood, whereas a propeller 'propels' a vessel through the water by rapidly displacing water backwards from the propellor blades... Newton said, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Actually, it was me who said that but I'll let that one go for now.

As a result, the boat moves FORWARD at the same rate of knots that water is being displaced BACKWARDS and away from the boat.

When 1 ton of force is expended backwards from the prop or screw, 1 ton of reactive force happens in the opposite direction.

A ship's screw does not propel, ..it screws!

A small vessel does not screw, it propels! A propeller of a small pleasure craft turns approximately 10,000 rpm at the prop, compared to 20 rpm of a screw on an ocean vessel.

The ONLY time that severe slip as you refer to it, would ever occur would be with a propellor on a small craft or vessel, but never with a screw on a ship.

What defines a propellor versus a screw is the rpm that each use to move the vessel in question, which is wholly dependent on the weight of the vessel floating in the water. Extremely heavy vessels are not built for speed, but are only built to move forward very slowly. Pleasure craft are built for speed, but are not built to pull heavy loads.

Severe slip of a propeller occurs when cavitation occurs behind the high-speed of a rotating propeller of a small vessel, which then leads to an area of 'vacuum' to form behind the prop itself which is immersed UNDER THE WATER where there is literally no water making contact with the propeller blades during those moments that cavitation is occurring.

This causes the prop blades to over-speed within a cavity of 'air/vacuum' that the prop created from the expansion of steam that forms which was caused by the friction of the prop blades operating within that cavity of steam with no water making contact with the blades to keep them cool, at which point the engine itself will typically 'over-speed' due to the sudden REDUCTION of resistance of the prop blades against it's medium of water as those blades spin inside that miniature vacuum that steam created behind the prop.

When cavitation occurs, the prop blades become overheated and steam will form within that area of cavitation, further increasing the temperature of the blades to the point where they either melt from the heat or they grossly deform to the point of being unrecognizable as a propeller.

This most typically happens with an aluminum propellor which is the standard on all pleasure craft which use propellers. To prevent this self-destruction of the propeller, a stainless steel prop is used instead which is extremely hard metal and will not deform from heat. In fact, it is almost impossible to cut stainless steel with a hacksaw and therefore cutting stainless steel requires specialized cutting equipment. Because stainless is so hard, the blades will not warp from overheating.

The vessels that use stainless steel props to PREVENT prop failure from occurring due to momentary cavitation, are waterski boats or high speed search and rescue vessels.

The only downside with using stainless props on any pleasure craft is the resultant damage to the engine and transmission that will result if that stainless prop should ever hit a rock while operating in shallow water.

The prop won't sacrificially bend and therefore displace the impact shock, nor will the stainless blades self-destruct to absorb the immediate impact.

Instead, that shock-impact will transfer itself upstream from the stainless prop (and rock) to the transmission and then to the engine itself, where somewhere alone the way that 'shock wave' will find a way to displace itself, which usually results in a broken crank shaft or a destroyed transmission which of course is attached to the engine.

An aluminum propeller therefore, acts as a sacrificial anode should the vessel come in contact with rocks in shallow water. The prop is destroyed, but during that momentary destruction of an aluminum prop, the shock-energy is immediately absorbed by the bending and breaking of the aluminum blades.

On an ocean vessel which uses 'screws', the same principle applies.

Because the ship is SO heavy, an aluminum screw would literally bend and deform all the blades as soon as the throttle was opened. This is because a ship's screw is typically 24 to 36 inches in diameter tip-to-tip on a 4-bladed screw which means there is a lot of leverage being imposed on those screw blades when the power is applied at the throttle(s).

For the same reason that stainless steel propellers are used on high speed props which pull heavy water skiers on a lake at high speed, is also the reason why an ocean vessel's screws are made of bronze!

Bronze is extremely hard like stainless steel and will not corrode in salt water and bronze is also a heavier, thus stronger metal than stainless steel. That is why bronze screws are used to move heavy loads at slow speed and stainless props are used to move heavy loads at high speeds.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
Nothing comes for free! You still have the capital and running costs, and the latter includes the electricity.
FloorGenAdm · 51-55, M
I like the tried and true I don't like figuring out new sh!t.
pdockal · 56-60, M
You do know you have to pay for electricity/ charging

 
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