So... Healthcare is a privilege now???? Wow

@Sicarium: soo.. if a person is genuinely in need and can't afford healthcare because of life situations they're just supposed to be sick and possibly die?? or what about their child/children

@AlienDreams: There is no country in the Western world where a sick person can be refused any and all treatment because they cannot pay. That is a false argument based on another lie.

@AlienDreams: yes, you're welcome to help them if you like but don't feel obligated.

@Sicarium: In all modern Western countries it is a right, just not in yours, it has a third world system, I even bet you're proud off it.

@Sicarium: I didn't say they wouldn't be treated but if they go and get treated they're going to be charged a bill that is not cheap. which is why a lot of people who don't have insurance don't go because they know they can not afford the aftermath

@kingkyrie: Your assumptions about me are your issue, not mine. As is your subjective use of the word "modern." I don't play definition games.

He is proud of it. He's a fucking idiot.

@AlienDreams: You asked if they should die. Those were your words. You said nothing about a bill. So, yes, you implied that they wouldn't be treated because they couldn't pay for it.

@Sicarium: okay but that's what im getting at here...

@AlienDreams: Then say what you're getting at instead of repeating talking points.

Yes, you should pay for healthcare. You are using someone else's expertise and time. You are buying a service. Which is why it is not a right. If it were a right, you would have the authority to force a doctor to treat you at no cost.

In every country with state-run healthcare systems, you still pay. You just pay more in advance through taxes. All your doing is shifting the bill to before you receive services while increasing wait times and decreasing quality of service.

@Sicarium: Well put.

The advantage of the American system is that you get to choose your health insurance, and therefore, you can pick a policy that only covers the services you are likely to use.

In government run healthcare systems, you do not get to choose how the government spends money allocated to the health system. Save for indirect ways like electing certain representatives.

Why do people always use this argument? It's false. Wait times are not horribly long in other countries. The waiting for treatment until you're dead is a complete farce. People wait in American emergency rooms for five to ten hours all the time too. It's based on triage here. If you've got non serious allergies, you're going to wait for the doctor to treat the oral abcess first, and if another comes while you're waiting, you'll wait for that too. Countries with universal healthcare do have a two tiered health care system too you know. If you want your non serious allergies treated right away, you can go to a medical facility that accepts payment for treatment as well. And quality of health care in the US is not better than Canada, that's laughable. Until a couple years ago American nurses needed additional training to work here. The approval system for pharmaceuticals is MUCH more rigorous than in the states. If everyone shared you're individualistic mindset, we wouldn't have a society. But I suppose that can be said of the collapsing United States.

@Flenflyys: Because the argument is true. Not the argument you used, that was fake. I never said treatment was delayed until you're dead. You're taking my argument out of context, twisting it, and arguing against an irrelevant point. That's a dishonest tactic. Deal with what people say, not what you wish they would say.

Healthcare is delayed in government-run systems. Absolutely. It's true in every country, without fail. There is research, studies, anecdotal evidence, even direct video. Pick whatever of type of info you want, it's out there.

But don't take my word for it. Here's one, tiny example in an ocean of data.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/31/nhs-rationing-hip-replacement-patients-needlessly-suffering/

I didn't say you said that first of all so calm your triggered self. That's a common argument. That's not a reliable source. And your anecdotal evidence doesn't change the reality of the situation, sorry. Eta your ignoring my explanation to post a news article is brilliant though.

@Flenflyys: I'm not triggered, I'm completely calm. Again, deal with what people say, not what you want them to say. Honesty is not a bad thing. You don't have to project whatever onto people. You will be far better to debate people, and convince people, when you stop trying to dimsiss people by pretending they're triggered or twisting their words.

False. I never said treatment was delayed until they're dead. I just didn't. It's all right above you, you can read it again if you need to. Beyond than, dunno what to tell you besides be more honest.

Like I said, one, small example in an ocean of data. You can either turn a blind eye to the data and pretend none of it exists or you can address it.

What are you going to accept as a reliable source? Or is it really just what's being said, anything that disagrees with you is a bad source?

@Sicarium: I understand it's a service but having it available to everyone and just paying it though taxes, is better than people going with out and being scared to go in because of not being able to afford it

@AlienDreams: That's your opinion, it is not mine. I do not want to be forced to pay for services I do not need. I don't want others forced to do it either. That's less freedom, it leads to less quality, and it forces more financial problems for the entire society.

Regardless, if you agree that it's a service, what other services are treated as rights? Because that was the basis for all of this.

@AlienDreams: The reason why so many people in the US don't have health insurance is because they didn't take personally responsibility for themselves and opted not get insurance when they weren't sick or injured or whatever. Then when they got sick or injured, acted all surprised that they couldn't afford insurance.

Insurance is meant to be paid for when you are healthy, and provided when you are not.

If you waited until you got in a car accident before trying to get car insurance, then of course no company would want to insure you. The same thing with health insurance.

@Ax17x7: Okay but that's not every persons situation

@AlienDreams: Then there's Medicaid for those people.

Okay... but the way things are going they may take that away as well
@Ax17x7:

@AlienDreams: No. That's just the democrats trying to scare you because they can't support any bill proposed by the republicans.

@Sicarium: attacking the person you're having a disagreement with is never a good tactic. Idk what all that crap is about but you clearly want to say less about what I'm saying and more about how I'm saying it, laden with your assumptions. I said you were triggered because you provided a snarky response. But my all means, say nothing about the facts mentioned. Take care big guy!

Eta and I will reiterate since you seemed to have missed it a second time, I never said that you said that.

@AlienDreams: That's from people who are fear mongering and telling half truths. Medicaid isn't going to be killed off. What will likely happen is most of the people ObamaCare put onto Medicaid will go back to private insurance, which was suppose to be what they were going to have under ObamaCare. They were never meant to on Medicaid. But, because ObamaCare was such an administrative disaster, they got shoved onto Medicaid.

How was obamacare a disaster???
@Sicarium: