How cruel were students between each other when you were in college and how brutal and cruel did they behave with each other?
Reddit, what is the most brutal/brutally honest thing you have heard a teacher say to a student and what effect did it have on them? What is the cruelest and most inhuman and heartless thing you have seen a student do to a teacher? What’s the most hurtful thing a student has said to you? Think of all the things we don’t let 18 year olds do—they can’t drink or smoke. They are barely able to vote and don’t gain too many legal privileges until they are actually 21 years old. We say that this is because their decision making faculties are not yet fully developed so they need to wait.
So where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans. How is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? They wouldn’t be able to grasp how much money that is, and fewer are even sure of what they truly want to do for the rest of their lives (which generally extends college, making it more expensive).
I think this is predatory and really, really fucking stupid.
Okay, I tried to write a comment to expand on my argument but it removed it so I'll add it to my original post.
Okay, first off hi everyone!
I’m sorry, I wrote this in the morning in a bad mood and was honestly not expecting to receive this many responses. I didn’t really elaborate on what I meant and kinda just wrote something with a dramatic title. I do think that people should seek higher education if they can, but I think it is becoming a less sound decision in the US when so many people lack guidance in the college process and the general public sentiment is to “go to college for a good job”. This is absolutely a systemic issue but regardless of whose fault it is, I do believe it is unreasonable that teens these days are being encouraged to take on this kind of debt.
Some background on me (which isn’t really interesting but gives more context) is that I was funneled into going to a four year university with no knowledge of any alternative options.
I have the privilege of my tuition fees being covered by my parents, but the primary earner in my family has faced the unexpected loss of his job and will likely not find another job in his career. This means I might have to take out loans and I am not sure if this is worth it considering I:
a) have career interests outside of university prospects (not requiring a degree)
and
b) was a very stupid 18 year old lacking goals and I now am only semi-sure of what I am doing at school.
I know these are a specific set of circumstances most of you are not experiencing, but it prompted me to post this take.
I am certainly off-base in who I am blaming (I am not even certain on whom), but I do really view student loans as something that can be incredibly damaging. I find this problematic when I believe the young students taking them out aren’t fully aware of the implications of these loans. I probably could have titled this post more accurately, maybe something along the lines of “we need to stop stigmatizing teens for not going to college” or “we don’t talk about how going to college can easily become a huge mistake”.
Many teens go to college because they think they “should”, and this is truly what I believe is wrong when a lot of undergraduates find themselves in college with no plan besides having gone there. I think this generally ends up wasting money and leading to an inefficient college experience where students do not make the most of their time or their college resources. This is especially unfortunate when graduates can spend a lifetime paying back their student loans. This crisis can be averted by preparing teens better for university (by informing them of what they’re getting into!!) and additionally providing them with options other than four year colleges or universities. IMO, college is now becoming something most people cannot afford to just do for the experience.
Anyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of.
1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school.
I completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them.
I think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.
2: this is an American problem.
True, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol).
3: 300k is inaccurate
Yeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there.
Something I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark.
4: the return is better with a college degree
Yes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns.
Someone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big.
When it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel.: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke.
No, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value.
Someone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.
6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities.
I mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke.
Also, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial).
7: people figure themselves out in college.
This is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life.
Overall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to.
So where is this logic when it applies to college?? We actively encourage kids to place themselves into binding contracts where they may have to spend a decent chunk (or the rest) of their lives paying back up to 300k in student loans. How is an 18 year old, who is legally barely capable of anything, understand the true implications of such a decision? They wouldn’t be able to grasp how much money that is, and fewer are even sure of what they truly want to do for the rest of their lives (which generally extends college, making it more expensive).
I think this is predatory and really, really fucking stupid.
Okay, I tried to write a comment to expand on my argument but it removed it so I'll add it to my original post.
Okay, first off hi everyone!
I’m sorry, I wrote this in the morning in a bad mood and was honestly not expecting to receive this many responses. I didn’t really elaborate on what I meant and kinda just wrote something with a dramatic title. I do think that people should seek higher education if they can, but I think it is becoming a less sound decision in the US when so many people lack guidance in the college process and the general public sentiment is to “go to college for a good job”. This is absolutely a systemic issue but regardless of whose fault it is, I do believe it is unreasonable that teens these days are being encouraged to take on this kind of debt.
Some background on me (which isn’t really interesting but gives more context) is that I was funneled into going to a four year university with no knowledge of any alternative options.
I have the privilege of my tuition fees being covered by my parents, but the primary earner in my family has faced the unexpected loss of his job and will likely not find another job in his career. This means I might have to take out loans and I am not sure if this is worth it considering I:
a) have career interests outside of university prospects (not requiring a degree)
and
b) was a very stupid 18 year old lacking goals and I now am only semi-sure of what I am doing at school.
I know these are a specific set of circumstances most of you are not experiencing, but it prompted me to post this take.
I am certainly off-base in who I am blaming (I am not even certain on whom), but I do really view student loans as something that can be incredibly damaging. I find this problematic when I believe the young students taking them out aren’t fully aware of the implications of these loans. I probably could have titled this post more accurately, maybe something along the lines of “we need to stop stigmatizing teens for not going to college” or “we don’t talk about how going to college can easily become a huge mistake”.
Many teens go to college because they think they “should”, and this is truly what I believe is wrong when a lot of undergraduates find themselves in college with no plan besides having gone there. I think this generally ends up wasting money and leading to an inefficient college experience where students do not make the most of their time or their college resources. This is especially unfortunate when graduates can spend a lifetime paying back their student loans. This crisis can be averted by preparing teens better for university (by informing them of what they’re getting into!!) and additionally providing them with options other than four year colleges or universities. IMO, college is now becoming something most people cannot afford to just do for the experience.
Anyways, here are some responses I have to some comments I’ve seen a lot of.
1: college students fresh out of high school are more likely to continue to grind, therefore making completing a degree easier for them than it would be for an older adult with other responsibilities outside of school.
I completely agree with this point! It is definitely easier to complete school right from high school because it is what is familiar to them.
I think the problem is that a lot of individuals are “grinding” without an overarching goal, which oftentimes leads to some sort of existential crisis and burnout. “Sophomore blues” don’t exist without a reason. I think it is easier for people to do what they must when they have clear goals in mind. It is already starting to take the average undergrad 5 years to complete a degree due to changing majors and academic leave. People who know what they’re there to do usually make more use out of their experience and have more discipline. But yes, it can definitely be harder to keep up with the pace while juggling more responsibilities.
2: this is an American problem.
True, and we envy you! It is definitely wise for US citizens looking to go to college to look into doing their schooling abroad these days (even though I understand you might not want us lol).
3: 300k is inaccurate
Yeah, my bad. I’m definitely in the wrong there.
Something I will throw in there, though, is that many college graduates are starting to go to graduate school with the belief that it will bring them financial stability, which oftentimes easily pushes tuition fees past the 100k mark.
4: the return is better with a college degree
Yes, many studies point to this. However, depending on your career choice, getting started as young as possible may serve you better for future returns.
Someone wrote something about how people aren’t going to college to do their “influencing” careers (or something with crypto). This is not what I mean by a career—I am talking about a career path with steady income and employment that is not based on some component of luck in order to make it big.
When it comes to four year colleges, I am also talking about how we don’t inform teens on precautionary measures they can take to reduce their debt—I don’t mean that teens should completely avoid college. Students can take prerequisite courses at community colleges in order to avoid taking these same classes at a higher cost at a college or university. We don’t really help teens find ways they can lessen the blow of loans, and yeah, I do find that kind of cruel.: I think it’s unjust that 18 year olds can go to college but can’t smoke.
No, I just find it interesting that we think 18 year olds aren’t responsible enough to make many decisions (those were examples, maybe bad ones) yet it is completely normalized for 18 year olds to take on significant amounts of debt for schooling. When it comes to many other matters, the consensus is that 18 year olds are too naïve or unaware of what they are doing to the point of which we actually bar them from taking various actions to protect them. We tend to think 18 year olds have a very poor gauge of money and its value.
Someone wrote a good point that 18 year olds are able to make other financial decisions such as taking out loans on cars, marriage, and applying for credit. My response is that these decisions are, for the most part, actually highly discouraged for 18 year olds to make. People generally think that 18 year olds should avoid taking out loans on things they can’t afford/repay and most 18 year olds who buy cars only buy them outright. I don’t know a single person who thinks getting married before 25 is acceptable, and credit limits are incredibly low for 18 year olds because most of them make little to no income. Therefore, I find it odd that society encourages teens to take on student debt (a loan that, for the most part, the repayment of is uncertain) and view those who do otherwise as “not caring” for their future. Kids in college who are paying money and don’t care about their future are making a far worse choice.
6: going to college puts you around good influences and gives you plenty of networking opportunities.
I mean, sure I guess? You can find bad people anywhere, and I wouldn’t call the binge drinking or hazing cultures that take place at colleges influential. In fact, at many of these wealthy institutions kids do a lot more drugs than most people outside of college who can’t afford boatloads of coke.
Also, this idea that the “good people are in college” comes from the same sentiment that stigmatizes teens who do not attend college. Also, I think it’s pretty weird that people seem to think that successful networking is only done in college. You can form connections to anyone anywhere, really (also, as someone who is around a lot of people who call making friends “networking”, it seems pretty superficial).
7: people figure themselves out in college.
This is subjective, and there are many less expensive (maybe even free!) ways to develop your sense of identity and goals in life. Speaking for myself, I figured out my direction in life entirely outside of university and college feels like a fever dream. I can’t give an objective response to this point but I don’t agree that adolescents can only “find themselves” in this bubble that is quite detached from real life.
Overall, what I’m saying is that college is becoming less and less the “right choice” for a lot of people: the degree market is oversaturated, the undergraduate unemployment rate is growing, and job security is rapidly on the decline. I think these reasons make a good case for teens to explore alternative options such as trade schools (job growth out of trade schools are growing rapidly) and rethink whether college is pivotal or not to their personal and financial success. Yeah, I do find it pretty cruel that we throw kids into making these decisions when they are, for the most part, ill-informed. It’s especially messed up when we all kind of know that college tuition in the US is fucking ridiculous and a bachelor’s degree doesn’t hold the same value it used to.
