Do you support Israel?

@LeopoldBloom [quote]As for how Israel was founded, that had a historical background and came from mistakes made by all parties. So we have to move on from that.[/quote]
What do you mean by move on? You mean allow criminals to just steal land and not return it? Essentially supporting their actions and turning away the return of the land? Even without a little punishment?

Cuz I think that's kinda the point of punishing robbers, right?

@Babylon Are you saying that Israel should give back all of the land they took in 1948 and return to the original UN boundary? Or give back 100% of the land and go back to Europe? What about the Jews who are descended from people who have lived there since antiquity? Or the Palestinians who are descended from people who emigrated there after the turn of the century and are not indigenous? Should the Jews who were expelled from their communities in the Arab world after Israel was created get their own stolen property back?

I think after all this time, talking about "stolen land" when people have been living there for generations, makes as much sense as saying that the countries in North and South America should be given back to the Native Americans or Australia should be given back to the Aborigines. I'm not talking about settlements in the West Bank, I mean the current boundaries of the Israeli state.

This is why federation is the answer. Everyone gets to live there. But if your goal is to expel the Jews and hand the country over to Hamas, you should expect some resistance.

@LeopoldBloom the Nakba was in 1948. Some people who made it happen are alive there. Their first generation of children remain in homes built by Palestinians. Is it really that far fetched to bring back the Palestinians? 🤨
It isn't about who emigrated where. People pretend this is so hard. There are people with their house keys alive today who know exactly where they lived. If they got their house back and the people who stole it were allowed to either build their own house or even be allowed to stay there but they have to legally immigrate and legally pay for some other Palestinian land and they can buy or build homes there, is that really an irrational thought? Because we believe in returning jewelry back to the person who stole it. How can a house suddenly be far less worth returning to someone when we know quite literally who lives there:
[youtube=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8]

This New Yorker Jacob in the video can go right back to new York or just be told to vacate her house and buy some other land legally and build it there. This is all you'd need to do for the people who lost their homes. If you want people to live there together, let them. Palestine HAD Jews. There were and still are Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians, and Palestiniam Muslims. The incoming European descended Jews are removing Palestinians and deporting black Jews. Tell me about the homes of the black Jews. What should happen to those?

And where do you suggest the Palestinians who are going to be kicked out for Jacob to go? Wouldn't you rather just give her her house back? The same can be done, safely and legally for the Nakba's known homes that were taken just a generation ago. 70 years is not that far and everyone can be happy and safely, fairly, and legally allowed to be there

@Babylon Only an insignificant percentage of Israelis are American immigrants.

This is why I support the Israel-Palestine federation. No one should have to be kicked out of their home. But if you're going to dwell on the past where the only solution is to do to Israeli Jews what was done to you, then be prepared to carry on that battle forever.

@LeopoldBloom that's fine. Let it be a small percentage. Ignoring all the other stealings of home, do you support the future of yhis New Yorker, Jacob, just stealing her home or do you support the idea of telling Jacob to get out and give her house back?

Cuz there can only be one of two rational futures:

1. He remains there
2. He is removed from there.

And you can support only one of the two possibilities 🤷🏾‍♂️
Unless you want them to somehow keep the house and Jacob can just move in and become part of her family

Come on, bro. I know you know the right thing to do here. Is it a struggle to make Jacob do the right thing?

@Babylon I oppose the Israeli settlement policy. So in this case, the guy from New York should have to live somewhere else. If it were up to me, US military aid to Israel would be predicated on their curtailing settlements in the West Bank.

But this one guy is not the issue. Do you support Hamas spending all of the money they get on building tunnels to attack Israel, instead of on infrastructure?

@LeopoldBloom I don't support Hamas' choices to focus on fighting back colonization when Palestinians need foreign aid for food and water. If there could be a peaceful option, I always prefer it.

Now, I am glad we at least agree that the Jacob has got to go, and hopefully, the other similar cases of known Palestinian families kicked straight out of their homes

@Babylon Gaza is not "colonization" since there are no Jews living there. But at least we agree that Hamas' violent resistance to Israel is pointless and self-destructive.

@LeopoldBloom I hope that the unworthy leaders of the world are replaced with just leaders and this matter can be resolved peacefully