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Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Probably never.
For one it’s a great political tool to inspire fear in people and so make them more compliant.
Two. America’s insanity of ‘business at any price’ (proven by the numbers dead and infected) makes it even more of a necessity especially if they insist on keeping access to China ongoing.
Three the current medical consensus seems to be that Covid is here to stay.
So masks; regular hand washing and barrier sprays and gels look set to become the norm worldwide from now on
For one it’s a great political tool to inspire fear in people and so make them more compliant.
Two. America’s insanity of ‘business at any price’ (proven by the numbers dead and infected) makes it even more of a necessity especially if they insist on keeping access to China ongoing.
Three the current medical consensus seems to be that Covid is here to stay.
So masks; regular hand washing and barrier sprays and gels look set to become the norm worldwide from now on
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Picklebobble2 Nah, I disagree.
People don't seem particularly afraid of authorities anywhere in the west. Over here you have mobs blocking highways, in the U.S. folks literally invading the Capitol.
China has probably fewer cases than both our countries combined, over there if you even just thought "I don't want to wear a mask" you would've been arrested. And you can't downplay/hide an epidemic, we've already seen them failing at it at first.
Here to stay doesn't mean it's gonna stay in a pandemic form, the consensus is that it might stay as a seasonal minor thing just like most of the other HCoVs, once everyone got his/her first line of defense against it. No one cares about other minor recurring endemic viruses, this one won't get any special treatment once reduced to that.
People don't seem particularly afraid of authorities anywhere in the west. Over here you have mobs blocking highways, in the U.S. folks literally invading the Capitol.
China has probably fewer cases than both our countries combined, over there if you even just thought "I don't want to wear a mask" you would've been arrested. And you can't downplay/hide an epidemic, we've already seen them failing at it at first.
Here to stay doesn't mean it's gonna stay in a pandemic form, the consensus is that it might stay as a seasonal minor thing just like most of the other HCoVs, once everyone got his/her first line of defense against it. No one cares about other minor recurring endemic viruses, this one won't get any special treatment once reduced to that.
This is my take as well. One of the well intended consequences is acclimatizing people to remaining distant (and that much more foreign) to one another. The less familiar you are with someone else the less likely you are to be concerned with his or her well being.@Picklebobble2
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Elessar Most people are afraid. Except it seems a section of Americans. This is why covid will go round and round and round in America.
Because even with vaccines you have no will, politically or socially to end it.
It’s also the prime reason Americans are likely to be banned from foreign flights without a period of quarantine at your destination !
Where do you get the thinking that in China Covid is a seasonal thing ?
It’s not. It’s connected to poverty !
Poor people eat diseased animals and that’s how it starts.
You have a plan to end Chinese poverty ? Because they don’t !
A sizeable slice of America is screaming they won’t touch any vaccines....... Now unless American authorities take the view that everybody is required to (enforced vaccination) how will this ever end ?
Because even with vaccines you have no will, politically or socially to end it.
It’s also the prime reason Americans are likely to be banned from foreign flights without a period of quarantine at your destination !
Where do you get the thinking that in China Covid is a seasonal thing ?
It’s not. It’s connected to poverty !
Poor people eat diseased animals and that’s how it starts.
You have a plan to end Chinese poverty ? Because they don’t !
A sizeable slice of America is screaming they won’t touch any vaccines....... Now unless American authorities take the view that everybody is required to (enforced vaccination) how will this ever end ?
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Picklebobble2 Not at all. Most people [b]were[/b] afraid, at least in Europe; most people right now have resumed a pseudonormal life, and are just waiting for their life to resume in full; fear (and compliance) are both inversely proportional to the time it takes to clear the situation out. In this and every other even deadlier past pandemic. Judge by yourself:
This is 2020 (actually when the problem hadn't even reached most of the world):
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XyBLESmAs]
This is a lockdown now, same country and same region/state:
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E00mwDzwxXk]
[quote]Where do you get the thinking that in China Covid is a seasonal thing ?
It’s not. It’s connected to poverty !
Poor people eat diseased animals and that’s how it starts.
You have a plan to end Chinese poverty ? Because they don’t !
[/quote]
I'm not talking about where/how it did start, pandemics can start from literally anywhere, including western industrialised overcrowded farms for that matter.
I'm saying that China now has pretty much eradicated the problem in their own territory, and this in like two months and without even needing vaccines. The moment they have a localized hotspot they close *everything* (and their concept of closing stuff is quite a bit more stringent than our one), mass-test several millions of citizens at once, and then resume business. It's mostly a western problem now.
[quote]A sizeable slice of America is screaming they won’t touch any vaccines....... Now unless American authorities take the view that everybody is required to (enforced vaccination) how will this ever end ?[/quote]
A loud minority statistically under the 30% of the country judging by the data that are released. In any case yes, that's how it works, either a sufficient percentage of people voluntarily take it (and artificial herd immunity kicks in), or (and especially in case the % required turns out to be too high like in case of measles for instance) you coerce them. As it's always been in history.
This is 2020 (actually when the problem hadn't even reached most of the world):
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4XyBLESmAs]
This is a lockdown now, same country and same region/state:
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E00mwDzwxXk]
[quote]Where do you get the thinking that in China Covid is a seasonal thing ?
It’s not. It’s connected to poverty !
Poor people eat diseased animals and that’s how it starts.
You have a plan to end Chinese poverty ? Because they don’t !
[/quote]
I'm not talking about where/how it did start, pandemics can start from literally anywhere, including western industrialised overcrowded farms for that matter.
I'm saying that China now has pretty much eradicated the problem in their own territory, and this in like two months and without even needing vaccines. The moment they have a localized hotspot they close *everything* (and their concept of closing stuff is quite a bit more stringent than our one), mass-test several millions of citizens at once, and then resume business. It's mostly a western problem now.
[quote]A sizeable slice of America is screaming they won’t touch any vaccines....... Now unless American authorities take the view that everybody is required to (enforced vaccination) how will this ever end ?[/quote]
A loud minority statistically under the 30% of the country judging by the data that are released. In any case yes, that's how it works, either a sufficient percentage of people voluntarily take it (and artificial herd immunity kicks in), or (and especially in case the % required turns out to be too high like in case of measles for instance) you coerce them. As it's always been in history.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Elessar I don’t see any evidence for what you suggest.
I see politicians telling you that !
I see a media desperate for that !
I see big business keen to pull any stunt necessary if it means people start buying !
Italy is an epic example of what happens when you don't follow the required rules ! And anything out of Italy or the E:U on anything 'successful' occurring in Italy i'd dismiss immediately as bogus.
Italians have large extended families. More than likely that the youngsters are being told to go see 'Grandma' and make sure she's ok' as is their way, and that's how it continues.
But you haven’t got a wonder drug that suddenly eradicated it !
You don’t even have joined up thinking between nations EVEN NOW on the best way forward together as opposed to each country applying their own logic to their own unique situation.
I see politicians telling you that !
I see a media desperate for that !
I see big business keen to pull any stunt necessary if it means people start buying !
Italy is an epic example of what happens when you don't follow the required rules ! And anything out of Italy or the E:U on anything 'successful' occurring in Italy i'd dismiss immediately as bogus.
Italians have large extended families. More than likely that the youngsters are being told to go see 'Grandma' and make sure she's ok' as is their way, and that's how it continues.
But you haven’t got a wonder drug that suddenly eradicated it !
You don’t even have joined up thinking between nations EVEN NOW on the best way forward together as opposed to each country applying their own logic to their own unique situation.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@Picklebobble2 I've been an essential worker, I haven't moved from Veneto (first registered Italian covid death happened at cyclable distance from where I am, in Vò, for the record) and I can assure you personally that the very first lockdown we implemented over here (when people were scared) compared to that joke we have now (when people couldn't care less about CV19) are completely different beasts. You don't even need to trust the media altogether, reality is in front of everyone's eyes.
Italy had a far higher compliance to the first lockdown measures than, say, the U.K (let alone the U.S.). Come on. Tier 1 lockdown over there in December and I personally know people who traveled from here to London, moved around London and came back to Italy without any issue altogether - and once there in parks and in public it was as if CV19 didn't exist. Spare me the "Italians don't follow the rules" nonsense, you can see on the very first video I've posted how many of us were around defying them.
Italy had a far higher compliance to the first lockdown measures than, say, the U.K (let alone the U.S.). Come on. Tier 1 lockdown over there in December and I personally know people who traveled from here to London, moved around London and came back to Italy without any issue altogether - and once there in parks and in public it was as if CV19 didn't exist. Spare me the "Italians don't follow the rules" nonsense, you can see on the very first video I've posted how many of us were around defying them.