What's a quote that describes your values?

@ChimerIX Nietzsche? -- Solid.

@YourBuddyRandall Yeah, he's great. I don't agree with the ubermensch proposition really, but the dude was smart none the less.

@ChimerIX it's only mentioned Twice, and it's in passing: once in "This spoke Zurathustra."

The Ubermensch was meant to be an ideal. The Nazi party getting a hold of it and making it about conquering the Jews is when we started getting the bastardized version.

Basically, the Ubermensch is just a person who isn't ruled by fear.

But Nietzsche had other issues.

@YourBuddyRandall It is not how often it is mentioned, and it is certainly not in reference to the Nazi Party's ideal. It's the implications of eugenics, a disgusting ideal that is unfortunately quickly becoming a reality. Admittedly, there are qualities to admire in the idealization presented but he and Ayn Rand had far deeper ideas for the Uber Mensch than simply a man without fear. We could simplify it in that manner if we ignore the implications and his own quotes on the matter that Ubermensch is amoral. Unbound to the social laws which we are bound to in a society. Maybe things would be better as an Ubermensch but only for he/her themselves. An antithesis to the stereotypical. Fortunately, his ideal was far more romantic than Ayn Rand's but she had a realistic view and grasp on the implications of such a creature.

@ChimerIX There is documentation of Nietzsche arguing with his racist brother in Law about the stupidity of valuing one race over another inherently.

He lays out his ideas in "The Genrilogy of morals." Where he makes the case that strict moral codes limit an agents capacity to think deeply about an issue.

So the Ubermensch would be "amoral" because he would come to his own conclusions about right and wrong. He wouldn't rwlt on an institution to do his thinking for him.

Eugenics doesn't enter that picture at all.

@YourBuddyRandall I'm not challenging his position on racism, nor did I posit any opinion on such a thing but I can understand if you thought that is what I meant by eugenics. You probably know as well as I do that he notably hated Anti-Semites and seemed to lack any political agenda but a dream. To be amoral, means to have no emotional compass nor compassion to guide the answers to those similar problems. At times his ubermensch seemed to be a man of the people but other times an unfeeling monster naturally incapable of relating to his fellow humans. Which can admirable if the word didn't mean what it means and meant how you say it. To be one's own god, it can be meant in many ways and I see and agree with the liberation aspect but that is certainly not the meaning of amoral.

The movement of Eugenics, which is no longer about the extinction or subjugation of races unless we are following the position offered by Nazi's but we both agreed that is not what we are discussing, is about the propagation of a superior genes. In Za has been inspired by his writing as well. So yes, I can concede it may not have enter through his hand but then it's a question of which came first the chicken or the egg. But the many others who also wrote on the Ubermensch before him and after him, Goethe, Ayn Rand, countless others all seem to have a similar notion that isn't entirely misplaced. Now, this isn't to say the Ubermensch in it's entirety is wrong or even corrupt but it had room for improvement. I do believe in the message of reclaiming one's agency and reliance upon one's self but seeing what the overall message of the Ubermensch, a message he may of latched to and tried to change into something much more inspirational, is not one I can support as aw hole.

Nietzche is an amazing philosopher and he himself was a genuinely good person. He himself was one of those last men spoke Zarathustra but it has it's flaws just as it has it's many wonderful points. The goal as he ultimately wills it is not flawed but the premise itself is simply what I have a problem with.

@ChimerIX I think we're probably in general agreement,

I don't think Nietzschebaspired to be perfectly amoral. I think he aspired to not be ruled by the morals of others. That's where we seem to disagree about his meaning.

Ultimately, his position was that people shouldvquestion the sources of their morals. So the fact that ayn Rand and others used his ideas to perpetuate nonsense is something Tandy I think would infuriate him.

I can appreciate why we disagree in places though. Super good discussion man. It's fun to talk about.

@YourBuddyRandall I think so actually. He definitely wasn't the Ubermensch entirely spoke of, but in the way he originally intended it I do believe he was a very good man and one to be well respected as he slowly developed the idea to be further and further removed from Goethe's original premise which is why this is a fascinating discussion. There is even a book now I'd like to check out before I further do away with the entire idea.

You too, brotha man.