Thoughts on narcissism
There has been an ongoing slow debate about whether narcissists are aware and planning their actions or if they are just behaving as seems normal to them.
I want to say the answer is both. I think two things can hold the same space and quite easily here.
I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I didn't realize it till much later, but now that I recognize it, I feel pretty confident in this assumption. There are, of course, other mental health issues present as well, which helps mask the narcissism, but it is there.
Did my mom knowingly do narcissistic things? Did she intentionally know what she was doing?
I don't think so. I think for her, she knew she wanted something, and only had her own parents to pattern her behavior on, which were terrible metrics, and act in accordance to what she knew.
She knew she wanted her kids to love her. Much like her own mother, who used complaining as a way to garner sympathy and attention, my mom learned that by saying terrible things about my father to turn my sister and I against him was just "normal".
She would defend this to the bitter end by saying, "Kids can figure out the truth for themselves based off the actions of the person in question." It didn't dawn on me back when I was younger that she was manipulating my mind to come to the conclusion that my father was a horrible man and that conclusion was all mine based off my observations, even though they were completely fashioned under her lens.
Also, it never dawned on me to ever question, if he was so horrible, why was she staying, claiming she was slaving away because he didn't want to work and forced her to be the bread winner at her physical expense.
It is true that my dad didn't work. He "retired" from General Dynamics as a computer programmer in 1975, and decided since he was "retired", he didn't have to really work. (He was 30 at the time) They had purchased the kennel in 72 to groom, board, perform stud service, raise and sell puppies and handle dogs at dog shows. He did the handling and the stud service, but the rest of it was up to my mom to deal with.
He did take a second on the house to open up a hobby model shop, which would have done very well, except he didn't keep consistent hours and people got frustrated with that.
He operated a model hobby expo 3 times a year that actually was quite profitable. He wrote programs at home for sale that also did pretty well for himself. He did do things, but none of it was a "real" job.
So my mom used all of this to make him look badly and as if he just didn't care about his kids and family. Honestly, I think he just gave up realizing there was no way to win with her. Before he had retired, they were constantly fighting and yelling. Once he "retired", the fighting stopped. He stayed in his corner and she stayed in his unless it was to talk shit about him.
Just for clarification, my dad was not a good person. He had very horrible things about him and he certainly did his own mental damages on my sister and me. So I'm not claiming he was a victim in this. He was his own brand of horrible.
The thing is, I don't believe my mom made a conscious effort to slander my dad and make him look shitty to garner my sister and my love. I think she acted unconsciously to do that. I still consider it narcissistic, but not necessarily nefarious. She just never had any other tools to get what she wanted. Eventually, it became a habit. Something she did when she was feleing insecure, or my dad had made her mad, or whatever was going on.
When my dad passed away, she started the same beahvior to split my sister and I up. It is just what she does. I don't think she pits any thought into it. To her, that is her being "normal".
When I hear true crime stories about narcissists, I think the same thing I think about my mom. Both exist in the same person. Intentional and unintentional. When they scam someone, that's intentional. They know what they are doing. When they get into the relationship and they change, that is the "normal" for them.
I think we need to learn to realize that a narcissist can be both intentional and habitual instead of trying the one or other system. At least, that's how I see it
I want to say the answer is both. I think two things can hold the same space and quite easily here.
I grew up with a narcissistic mother. I didn't realize it till much later, but now that I recognize it, I feel pretty confident in this assumption. There are, of course, other mental health issues present as well, which helps mask the narcissism, but it is there.
Did my mom knowingly do narcissistic things? Did she intentionally know what she was doing?
I don't think so. I think for her, she knew she wanted something, and only had her own parents to pattern her behavior on, which were terrible metrics, and act in accordance to what she knew.
She knew she wanted her kids to love her. Much like her own mother, who used complaining as a way to garner sympathy and attention, my mom learned that by saying terrible things about my father to turn my sister and I against him was just "normal".
She would defend this to the bitter end by saying, "Kids can figure out the truth for themselves based off the actions of the person in question." It didn't dawn on me back when I was younger that she was manipulating my mind to come to the conclusion that my father was a horrible man and that conclusion was all mine based off my observations, even though they were completely fashioned under her lens.
Also, it never dawned on me to ever question, if he was so horrible, why was she staying, claiming she was slaving away because he didn't want to work and forced her to be the bread winner at her physical expense.
It is true that my dad didn't work. He "retired" from General Dynamics as a computer programmer in 1975, and decided since he was "retired", he didn't have to really work. (He was 30 at the time) They had purchased the kennel in 72 to groom, board, perform stud service, raise and sell puppies and handle dogs at dog shows. He did the handling and the stud service, but the rest of it was up to my mom to deal with.
He did take a second on the house to open up a hobby model shop, which would have done very well, except he didn't keep consistent hours and people got frustrated with that.
He operated a model hobby expo 3 times a year that actually was quite profitable. He wrote programs at home for sale that also did pretty well for himself. He did do things, but none of it was a "real" job.
So my mom used all of this to make him look badly and as if he just didn't care about his kids and family. Honestly, I think he just gave up realizing there was no way to win with her. Before he had retired, they were constantly fighting and yelling. Once he "retired", the fighting stopped. He stayed in his corner and she stayed in his unless it was to talk shit about him.
Just for clarification, my dad was not a good person. He had very horrible things about him and he certainly did his own mental damages on my sister and me. So I'm not claiming he was a victim in this. He was his own brand of horrible.
The thing is, I don't believe my mom made a conscious effort to slander my dad and make him look shitty to garner my sister and my love. I think she acted unconsciously to do that. I still consider it narcissistic, but not necessarily nefarious. She just never had any other tools to get what she wanted. Eventually, it became a habit. Something she did when she was feleing insecure, or my dad had made her mad, or whatever was going on.
When my dad passed away, she started the same beahvior to split my sister and I up. It is just what she does. I don't think she pits any thought into it. To her, that is her being "normal".
When I hear true crime stories about narcissists, I think the same thing I think about my mom. Both exist in the same person. Intentional and unintentional. When they scam someone, that's intentional. They know what they are doing. When they get into the relationship and they change, that is the "normal" for them.
I think we need to learn to realize that a narcissist can be both intentional and habitual instead of trying the one or other system. At least, that's how I see it
