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Is Islam really worse than other religions?

I am utterly non-religious but I fully disagree with people who single out Islam as being worse. Action depends on how religious text is interpreted and that is based on culture and wider social/political factors.

Quoting nasty verses written in the Qu'ran does not win an argument because it doesn't take account for the vast majority of Muslims who are peaceful and non-fundamentalist. It also doesn't account for the fact that most Christians do not take the Bible literally. Jesus Christ was a socialist pacifist who could forgive anything and the Old Testement God was violent and vengeful.

I live in a part of London with plenty of Muslims and when people call Muslims backward, insular and 'not-integrated' this clashes with my own personal experience. Only 1% of Americans are Muslims and when you don't personally know a group of people, it is easier to be susceptible to media stereotypes.

Also, Reza Aslam is awesome:

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QfgDkFR5E]
SW-User Best Comment
This is a dead-end conversation because everybody will repeat their same old prejudices. I also don't agree with every point you touch on here. But your main point is surely right. Muslims are human beings like anybody else, the current connection between terrorism and some versions of Islam is a temporary product of specific historical circumstances (and most victims of Islamist terror are Muslims!) and every religion or culture has its peaceful and violent aspects. I hope you won't let anyone talk you into their prejudices.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
[quote]I hope you won't let anyone talk you into their prejudices.[/quote]

Not a chance. ;-)
One sided more like.. Your either onboard the Islam is love and peace train or your an islamophobe...

Northwest · M
Just as with most religion-related issues, there is no simple answer to this question.

From a historical perspective, and using religious text alone, Islam introduced a couple of concepts:

1. A return to Old Testament values, in terms of enforcing the concept of God on the people, by force if necessary, and preventing re-conversion.

2. A new, revolutionary, family code, giving women and children, for the first time, a say into marriage, divorce, kids and financial security.

Christians, hundreds of years later, implemented #1. For those who are not familiar with it, look up "Inquisition".

#2, may be a surprise to most, because the only thing we hear about today, is how women are abused under Islam, and how Mohamad was a pedophile.

The Qur'an, specifically in the Chapter on Women, introduced some strict rules, covering the males responsibility toward the women they marry. It dictated a pre-nuptial, covering how much money a woman is owed, upon divorce, what happens to the kids, how they will be cared for financially, a man's responsibility to provide sexual companionship, a home, etc.

The marriage can only occur, only if the financial obligations, are placed into escrow, and a woman can demand a divorce, if her sexual needs are not met.

It also specified that a girl can marry, once she reaches puberty. It also allowed men to have up to four wives.

Mohamad, married an 11-year old girl.

You may see this as proof that Mohamad was a pedophile.

So, why was this an advancement? Because, at the time, whether the tribes were Christian, Jewish or non-believers, it was a common practice, for powerful men, to "take" any girl, of any age, or any woman (or women), rape, and abuse as they please.

Mohamad's child-bride, was promised to her uncle (Father's brother), and it seems as Mohamad managed to keep her uncle from claiming her, until she hit puberty.

Women in these societies (Europe as well), had no rights. They were taken as wives, concubines, or raped, by the well-to-do, and then abandoned, with their offspring. Islam gave women rights, they did not have.

Fast forward to today. Strictly speaking, and if we go by religious books, are religions are the same, so the issue, is how those who adhere to a particular religion, behave.

In first world countries, Christians evolved beyond their religious book, and although culturally Christian, they don't adhere to most of the Commandments.

Non-Israeli Jews, are, for the most part secular as well.

Israeli Jews are split, with Orthodox Jews following nearly the same dietary, marital, family law, etc. rules as religious Muslims. No big surprise, the Qur'an is a combination of the OT and NT.

Western societies, had the luxury of ruling the rest of the world, so the bulk of the Muslim world, did not get the chance to evolve. For the most part though, people in the Muslim world, simply want to live and let live.

Just as with every group of people, statistically speaking, you have the psychopaths, who turn fanatic. In the case of ISIS, it's even more complicated, as when they started out, it was not all about religion. It was about a group of Sunnis, who got shafted by the US invasion of Iraq.

Yes, Islam needs to reform, but islamophobia does not help. The latter accomplishes the opposite. It's easier for us in the Western world, to pass judgment. We've had the luxury of ruling the world, and exploiting these folks, for the past two centuries (minimum). It's our duty to help them ease into the 21st Century, and accept our responsibility.

There's so much more that can be written about this, but this is all the time I can find today, on a single post.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Nice and concise. 😂

It is a good answer though.
sevco2012 · 26-30, M
There's certainly a perception that Islam is backwards or barbaric for those who tend to be to the "right" of the spectrum.

The "left" often try to take the opposite view that Islam is impervious to any criticism and that any sort of critique counts as Islamophobic.

Islamophobia and Islamophilia are both pretty idiotic, each instance needs to be analysed by its own merits but ignoring the issues is a dangerous game that is leading otherwise decent people to right wing parties like the National Front in France and Golden Dawn in Greece who do identify the issues but overemphasise them or at least put their own distortion on it.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@plungesponge: Right wing nationalism is rising and it's cause is tough economic times. Stopping immigration, even if possible, will not end that
plungesponge · 41-45, M
@Burnley123: I'm not saying the refugees are the reason things are bad in Europe. But think about what you are saying there - "it has nothing to do with Islam, or refugees, or culture, it's only because of economics and austerity". Do you honestly think the undecided average Joe on the street could actually believe that and rally behind you?

I didn't post these replies to slam Islam. I posted them to show why the left is losing their base through this weird kind of moral equivalency where we are meant to believe all religions are the same, all ideas are the same, and any obvious differences in the way different groups of people act must, purely and only, be due to external factors. That is a losing strategy that is not going to fly with the reasonable majority of voters. The actual way to help the left restore it's credibility is to just be honest and say there is good and bad in every religion and culture, and the good in ours compels us to try to help the needy. But we must also be wary that there is a clear connection between Islam and terrorism in the world today, that there are jarring ideological clashes between the countries where refugees are hailing from and Western values like the protection and equality of homosexuals, women, non believers and apostates, the separation of church and state, the rule of man-made law over religious teachings, and the evil of revenge. We are all humans, but we are not all the same, and we recognise that there is a real danger from outsiders that must be recognized and not ignored and denied.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
Unfortunately a result of Christian-pandering media not liking to highlight Christian terrorist organizations, in my opinion. Some of the most horrifying terror attacks in recent history have been committed by Christian extremists, it's just that they've been vastly downplayed by the media in comparison to those performed by Islamic extremists.

All religions have their extremists, after all the Crusades were some of the bloodiest times in human history and quite likely even massively dwarf our current religious intolerance problems, and I'm even of the mind that atheist extremists exist in the form of "antitheists" who openly vilify all religion. No group is exempt from the possibility of extremism.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@DarylDixon: Why have they risen? The Qu'ran hasn't changed so maybe something else has.
UndeadPrivateer · 31-35, M
Islamic terror attacks haven't really risen dramatically in any kind of global trend, it's a localized phenomena that really has far less to do with Islam itself and more to do with Islamic terror groups taking advantage of a destabilized socioeconomic situation.
I mean it was barely 200 years ago that Christians were enslaving people and using the Bible as justification.

And don't even get me started on what they did to the fgts....

Every religion has had periods where there were people just doing awful things in the name of some sky fairy.

They're all trash Xd in fact this world is becoming a ball of trash and it's fitting for humans honestly...
SW-User
No, I believe there are extremist in every religion and it's the extremist sects that are the problem.
Aurelia · 41-45, F
Muslim people are no better or worse than any of the rest. People are people regardless of religion or other factors.

But if you look at the religion-yes it promotes rape and killing of non muslims. If you look at their prophets life, he was a egomaniacal pedophilic raging lunatic sex-addict.

The Old Testament is a historical record of the Jewish people, and yes there was adultery, murder, and wars because it was about PEOPLE who are flawed. But if you look at the life of Jesus, who Christians follow, he was peaceful and gave himself willingly as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

So yes, there's a difference between the religions. But between people, we are all the same.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@DarylDixon: Actually there are more Christian Islamophobes than any other religion.
I would like to ask you this question. Are there different sects of Islam? Some of them are the most beautiful people I have ever talked to, while others are still stoning women to their death, cutting off hands and limbs, I saw one lady mobbed and killed, stoned and burned because she was accused of putting the Quran in a dumpster. I dont see this ois all Muslimsbut it is still going on everyday in these countries. What makes them different from the peaceful Muslims?
@Pirate: Ok -- that is understood.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Reza Aslam would say politics and culture influence interpretation of religious texts, and I agree.
@Burnley123: Thank you and I am just trying to understand because I love my Muslim friends
LarryStrawman · 22-25, M
The old testament says some pretty bad shit as well, just like you mentioned. Deuteronomy, for example, makes it a rule ordered by god that in case a woman doesn't bleed on the consummation of her marriage, she must be stoned to death at the front of her father's house. Pretty bad shit. But there is one huge difference here: A clear separation of the state and the Bible. A secular state. The Bible is not the law, however, the Qu'ran is. There's no such a thing as a secular state there, nope. Qu'ran is the law, and all muslims must abide by it. No, not just extremists, I'm talking about regular muslims. So yeah, the nasty things the Qu'ran says are worrysome. But no need to listen to me, listen to normal non-extremists muslims: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV710c1dgpU

Just something worth mentioning here: at the very beginning of the Qu'ran, it's written that to follow that book you must believe everything it says, 100%, not just fragments, like many people like to do with the Bible.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@LarryStrawman: Then Most Muslims are not Muslims and I'm gonna tell people I work with that they are fake unless then join ISIS.
LarryStrawman · 22-25, M
No, you're just distorting my point now. You don't need to join ISIS to be a Muslim (I'll get there in a minute), but you still must follow the Qu'ran, completely. Otherwise you're not a proper representative of being a Muslim, which your colleagues don't seem to be. You know how there are people that call themselves catholics but don't follow anything they preach? It's more or less the same principle, but Islam is more solid and clear about things (and by that I mean it's written there that it's the absolute truth with no fail, and that you must completely follow it, not just partially. And people do so), so they shouldn't be able to get away with it.

It's completely possible for a Muslim to be a Muslim and not be part of a terrorist group. The Qu'ran makes it clear:

Surat Al-Mumtahanah [60:8-9]:

Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.




Did you know that a HUGE percentage of American Muslims actually believe in things that directly contradict what in fact most muslims believe, which is incidentally written in Qu'ran?


Most Muslims believe that men and women should sit seperatly, and that Allah's punishments for humanity are the best ones. Meanwhile, 90% of US Muslims said, according to studies, that women should be able to work outside the home. With men, of course. Approximatly 50% of them even said that many religions can lead to eternal life! That among many others contraditory beliefs.

"The truth about Muslims in America" by Holy Yan is an article with collected data about what I'm saying here, in case you want to check.


Go ahead in saying to your colleagues that they are not actual Muslims if they don't fully follow the Qu'ran inwardly and outwardly.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@LarryStrawman: Well. I won't be saying that to my colleagues. The whole point I am making is that religious action depends on interpretation and that most people don't follow religious texts literally. You seem to agree.
plungesponge · 41-45, M
All religions can be awful once the fundies get a hold of it. But I trust Sam Harris's view of it, he says that if you left aliens with Buddhist teachings and came back to find their planet rife with war and terrorists and beheadings, you could be somewhat surprised. But if you left them a copy of the Koran (or for that matter, the Old Testament), that outcome is all too understandable. So is Islam the worst of religions? No, but it certainly is one of the worst in the world at this point of history.
SW-User
Holy crap dude ._.
This....is a fantastic post
SW-User
No. Just extremists are bad.
Cierzo · M
The problem with Islam is that it is the most radical branches the ones being loud now, and for those Islam is not only a religion, but a legal and moral code too, and therefore it must be applied to everybody.
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SW-User
@DarylDixon: The point is, there's nothing specifically Muslim about thinking homosexuality is wrong. "Everybody" used to think so. Now in Western countries we don't any more. But there's no reason to expect the rest of the world to be in lockstep with us. Most Muslims in Britain are first- or second-generation immigrants; give them another generation or two and they'll be in tune with whatever the majority view will be then.
The Quran and Hadiths are filled with 'kill commands' Very violent and graphic kill commands against non believers. Read article seven of the Palestinian charter. It contains a Hadith specifically calling for the eradication of Jews. There is a reason, Muslims kill each other ,,,and others every day at an alarmingly disproportionate rate.
SW-User
No concidering terrorist aren't true Muslims
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Americanisbabylon: What is this? Bill Maher and some ISIS lite propeganda?

Reza dealt with Maher in his interview and that some Jihadists exist is not the point of contention. Read my points again please.
SW-User
There is bad in every religion, but there are some things in Islam that are very different from other religions. Such as some Muslims calling for death threats on people who insult their prophet. Or on people who criticize the religion itself.
Goralski · 51-55, M
It sorta says ya gotta convert to it or die. ..am I missing something in d translation
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Goralski: [quote]Quoting nasty verses written in the Qu'ran does not win an argument because it doesn't take account for the vast majority of Muslims who are peaceful and non-religious. It also doesn't account for the fact that most Christians do not take the Bible literally. Jesus Christ was a socialist pacifist who could forgive anything and the Old Testement God was violent and vengeful. [/quote]

I wrote this at the top but predictably, nobody read it.
SW-User
"...from where they have turned you out..."

That clearly restricts them to only give payback. Not overkill
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@DarylDixon: LOL. You can't even spell it correctly.

No and neither have you but we have both seen nasty passages quoted.

My argument is not about what is written in the Qu'ran but about how and why religious text is interpreted.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@DarylDixon: [quote]My argument is not about what is written in the Qu'ran but about how and why religious text is interpreted.[/quote]

Nope. You are ignoring mine. Its here again:

[quote]Quoting nasty verses written in the Qu'ran does not win an argument because it doesn't take account for the vast majority of Muslims who are peaceful and non-religious. It also doesn't account for the fact that most Christians do not take the Bible literally. Jesus Christ was a socialist pacifist who could forgive anything and the Old Testement God was violent and vengeful. [/quote]

[quote]Reza Aslam suggests its caused by the long standing cultures of such countries and/or political factors.

Personally I think its a mixture of politics, culture and religion. I am convinced Islamic terrorism would not exist if it wasn't for Western military interventions. I am also convinced that if a Christian country was under foreign military occupation, there would be Christian terrorists.[/quote]
SW-User
I prefer to let people choose their own invisible friends , then stay far away as possible.
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Burnley123 · 41-45, M
...or attention trolling.
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SINAI · T
Who am I to decide?

 
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