Is Islam really worse than other religions?

I am utterly non-religious but I fully disagree with people who single out Islam as being worse. Action depends on how religious text is interpreted and that is based on culture and wider social/political factors.

Quoting nasty verses written in the Qu'ran does not win an argument because it doesn't take account for the vast majority of Muslims who are peaceful and non-fundamentalist. It also doesn't account for the fact that most Christians do not take the Bible literally. Jesus Christ was a socialist pacifist who could forgive anything and the Old Testement God was violent and vengeful.

I live in a part of London with plenty of Muslims and when people call Muslims backward, insular and 'not-integrated' this clashes with my own personal experience. Only 1% of Americans are Muslims and when you don't personally know a group of people, it is easier to be susceptible to media stereotypes.

Also, Reza Aslam is awesome:

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1QfgDkFR5E]

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sevco2012 · 26-30, M

There's certainly a perception that Islam is backwards or barbaric for those who tend to be to the "right" of the spectrum.

The "left" often try to take the opposite view that Islam is impervious to any criticism and that any sort of critique counts as Islamophobic.

Islamophobia and Islamophilia are both pretty idiotic, each instance needs to be analysed by its own merits but ignoring the issues is a dangerous game that is leading otherwise decent people to right wing parties like the National Front in France and Golden Dawn in Greece who do identify the issues but overemphasise them or at least put their own distortion on it.

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

[quote]The "left" often try to take the opposite view that Islam is impervious to any criticism and that any sort of critique counts as Islamophobic. [/quote]

I disagree actually. I am of the left as see all relgions as equally bad. Its not my values. What I don't like is people making Islam and exception (as you say; NF, Golden Dawn and UKIP).

This leads to persecution of minorities and has been used to justify military interventions.

plungesponge · 41-45, M

Yes, it's pretty funny in a way. It's like both the right and the left can't discuss it unless they reach for the most extreme, most unrealistic examples they can dream up. The Muslims are either all planning some kind of mass Purge Night where they torture, murder and rape every non-Muslim they find, or they are the sweetest collection of earnest young women and doe-eye'd children who only want to be part of democracy and liberal values. Both lines of argument only attract the dumbest of the dumb, leaving reasonable people with no voice.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@plungesponge: Do the left actually say that Islam itself is great though? I haven't come across that. Could you send me a link?

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@DarylDixon: Indeed and I am one of them and my bigoted beliefs mean that I would seriously ban you from writing poetry:

[quote]When I was 1 I jacked my penis off
When I was 2 I sucked my brothers cock
When I was 3 I started getting thick
When I was 4 I ate a goats dick
When I was 5 I fucked the teacher's price
When I 6 I ate a bag of chips
When I was 7 I had sex with my sister
When I was 8 I gave a nun a titty twister
When I was 9 I butt fucked a goat
When I was 10 I shoved my Cock down my throat
When I was 12 I started growing pot
Coppercab, drop it like it's hot[/quote]

https://similarworlds.com/story?fid=570288&tid=614783&name=I-Wrote-a-Poem

😂

Goodnight. 😘

plungesponge · 41-45, M

@Burnley123: Yep they do. Though you may not actually recognize it through it's glossy spin. Here's a few examples to mull over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPo2B-vjZ28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQ-IoHfimQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_kP2jMzn24

The next time you see a pro-muslim, pro-immigrant, pro-refugee media article, watch what they focus on, it's always women and children. Which would be fine, if it was balanced with rationale discussion of other types that accompany that lot.

Now this is actual footage of what the average person sees in Europe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlvvExeYsiM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgRKfdHy2_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOkRfYHYJU8&t=11s

And we wonder why the average Joe are rallying behind right-wing maniacs? We need a moderate voice, not blind BS that no-one is buying anymore.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@plungesponge: Pffff. I am an average person in Europe.

Superbowl adds that show non-white people as human beings is not BS. *Equally selective* examples of Muslims doing bad things (that are not related to Islam) contributes nothing to the argument.

A moderate voice emphasises Muslim crime and is offended by depicting Muslims in a positive light?

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plungesponge · 41-45, M

haha how convenient, you say that these are indeed videos of Muslims doing bad things, but it has nothing to do with Islam. Well the average person in Europe is saying "I don't care whether they are doing it because of Islam or not, we do not want these Muslims here". And I don't blame them. Until the left starts acknowledging that there is a problem and providing real dialogue about it, they will continue to lose their power. Which is a shame, because frankly I would have been happier supporting the left than the right any day.

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@plungesponge: How do you even know what an average person in Europe is and does such a thing even exists.

[quote]Until the left starts acknowledging that there is a problem and providing real dialogue about it, they will continue to lose their power.[/quote]

The left needs to make an economic offer to left behind working class voters and not accept austerity economics. That is its problem in Europe and why in some countries social democratic parties have been challenged or wiped out by socialist alternatives.

What the left does not need is to accept counter-factual arguments by right wing nationalists. This loses votes because it accepts our opponents frame and terms of reference. It is also wrong, both morally and factually.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@DarylDixon: Pffff. Now some Muslims rape and steal because the Qu'ran tells them too. Your dick poem was more sophisticated and grown up than your political arguments.

plungesponge · 41-45, M

@Burnley123: How do I know what the average European is thinking? Well Brexit is one major clue, and the rise of right-wing parties all over Europe another sign: http://time.com/4504010/europe-politics-swing-right/ . Couple that with the fall of Angela Merkel's popularity even in her own country, and I'd say it's hard to ignore. Oh and outside of Europe...Trump?

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Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@plungesponge: Right wing nationalism is rising and it's cause is tough economic times. Stopping immigration, even if possible, will not end that

plungesponge · 41-45, M

@Burnley123: I'm not saying the refugees are the reason things are bad in Europe. But think about what you are saying there - "it has nothing to do with Islam, or refugees, or culture, it's only because of economics and austerity". Do you honestly think the undecided average Joe on the street could actually believe that and rally behind you?

I didn't post these replies to slam Islam. I posted them to show why the left is losing their base through this weird kind of moral equivalency where we are meant to believe all religions are the same, all ideas are the same, and any obvious differences in the way different groups of people act must, purely and only, be due to external factors. That is a losing strategy that is not going to fly with the reasonable majority of voters. The actual way to help the left restore it's credibility is to just be honest and say there is good and bad in every religion and culture, and the good in ours compels us to try to help the needy. But we must also be wary that there is a clear connection between Islam and terrorism in the world today, that there are jarring ideological clashes between the countries where refugees are hailing from and Western values like the protection and equality of homosexuals, women, non believers and apostates, the separation of church and state, the rule of man-made law over religious teachings, and the evil of revenge. We are all humans, but we are not all the same, and we recognise that there is a real danger from outsiders that must be recognized and not ignored and denied.