Spiritual Beings

@LadyGrace I'm not saying awareness get anyone to heaven. What I am saying is that heaven and hell are two different consciousnesses. For those of us who exist in the next world in these consciousnesses exist in either one or the other

@KALIS Yes, I understood that. I am asking the question, not based on your comments. Jesus said heaven and hell are real physical places one can go. What is your understanding of how to get to heaven?

@LadyGrace I believe that heaven and Hell are not physical places, in fact not places at all. They are forms of existence , like a different reality in which we exist in. There is no time of physical existence at all. That's my interpretation of it

@KALIS I respect your thoughts, but what do you make of Jesus, who was first in heaven, then came to earth to tell mankind how to get to heaven, is our Creator and said He has been to the physical places of both heaven and hell, and says they are indeed, real physical places? Jesus mentions Heaven about 70 times in the Book of Matthew, alone. Jesus said in the last days that one day the New Jerusalem, which is heaven, shall come down and rest upon Earth. That is in His Word. Jesus ascended to heaven in front of over 500 witnesses, to return to His Father in heaven, after His mission on earth was fulfilled. He also describes in great detail in His Word, the physical places of heaven and hell, so we would know they are real places.

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over a hundred and sixty two references in the New Testament alone, which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ.

@LadyGrace I can only trust my own intuition and my own interpretation of what jesus says. I'm not calling Jesus a liar, I'm just saying there are other ways to interpret the words of Jesus apart from the bible literal phrases. I don't believe that Jesus came from a physical heaven or went to a physical one either. Why do you think he was born of a woman ? God and Jesus are one , and the both belong to the great consciousness of the Universe and the physical reality. That how I interpret the words of Jesus

@KALIS I understand you, however, thats why Jesus said to believe and take literally what He said, and was careful to make his words very clear, on how to get to heaven. He doesn't want anyone to miss it. Our ways are not His ways. We can do it our way, but Jesus said they won't get us to heaven. His words and instructions are very clear and easy for the world to understand. They don't need to be interpreted. They mean what they say.

When mankind sinned, our sins immediately separated us from a Holy God in heaven because he is so holy he cannot even look upon sin. That presented a problem. Because sin cannot enter Heaven. And since God the Father cannot look upon sin, we had no way to communicate with God the Father to ask his forgiveness and reunite us with him in fellowship again. That is when God the Father approved and appointed Jesus Christ, his son, to be our mediator between God and man, and that is why Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary , and how he came to Earth through Mary, to be our Savior. God the Father sent him and his son's Spirit entered into Mary and she gave birth to him and history proves it. He grew up and told people how to be saved and how to get to heaven and then when his mission was finished, over 500 people saw him Ascend into heaven, to go back to his Father. When we come to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of our sins, the moment we do that, we are immediately forgiven and reunited in fellowship with God the Father and can pray directly to him again.

@LadyGrace What you say might be true, but what heaven is , is a major point. I see heaven as a state of existence, not a place to go to. So that is what interest me about God , about the interpretation of who, what he is, and what his plan is . I believe that is what God wants us to do. To interpret his words and deeds through the mind he gave us. I think it's not accurate t o see Heaven and hell as a physical place

@KALIS I don't understand your statement, because Jesus talks about heaven as being a place, when He said, "In my Fathers house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you: I go to prepare a place for you, so that where I am, you may be also." John 14:2 He is referencing the place called heaven. He even gives the measurements of it in His Word and tells us what the foundation of heaven is made of and describes its streets made of gold. He wants us to know it is a physical place He prepared for us to go, where death is no more, and there's no more tears or sorrow. No evil can enter its gates and the Angel's guard it day and night. He said there is nothing but love, peace, and joy there. God is perfect. He is incapable of sinning, meaning lying.

@LadyGrace He is using the word place so as it can be understood by the apostles . If he said I was preparing a conscience for you, it wouldn't have been understood. Jesus also told the apostles that to look for heaven, don't look here nor there (sorry , I don't know exact phrase) , because Heaven is everywhere . Jesus cryptic messages appear in the Gospel in places

@KALIS He said place, so that all people in the world would know He has provided a place for us to go to when we die. If it were only spiritual or in our conscience, he would not have described its exact measurements.

This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.
–Acts 1:11

Since the Bible is the inspired truth from God, Scripture is the place we turn, to find out whether Heaven is a real place or a state of mind.

A good place to start is with the only person who actually lived in Heaven and came to earth to tell us what Heaven is like. His name is Jesus Christ. In John 14:2-3, Jesus said, “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.”

There are three key words in this passage that help us answer the question: “Is Heaven a real place?” The first Greek word, “topos,” is translated “place.” Jesus said three times: “I go to prepare a place for you.” Heaven is a place, an exact geographical location. The second word, “mone,” is translated “dwelling places.” This word refers to the domicile of a person. Jesus was saying, “In My Father’s house, there is a place designed just for you.” The third word is “prepare.” Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you.” You do not have to prepare a state of mind. Jesus is in Heaven right now preparing a future residence for us.

@KALIS They also said, ‘Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven’” (Acts 1:9-11). Jesus was at the Mount of Olives, and He ascended into Heaven. Can you go from a geographical location into a state of mind? That does not make sense. Jesus went from one location, the Mount of Olives, to another location, Heaven. The angels said one day Jesus is going to come from Heaven, a real location, back to a real place on earth. You don’t come from a state of mind back to a physical location. And He will return in the same way. Just as Jesus was literally and visibly brought from earth to Heaven, one day Jesus will literally and visibly return from Heaven back to earth. And when He comes, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Heaven is a geographical location.

@LadyGrace That's your belief, not mine. But that's okay too. For me I don't rely on literal text to help me decide what I believe in. For me I go by what I think God is saying. If you want to read it literally then , be my guest. God for me is the conscience of the Universe, and not a physical God but rather a spiritual entity, I believe in Jesus as God when he was in a physical form, but I believe the 'Father' that Jesus spoke to was a spiritual one . You will never ever convince me to your physical God in heaven. But why should that matter ? We both believe in God and Jesus as God and all the Gospels etc..We are both going up the same mountain except on different slopes. Quoting biblical text does nothing to convince me to the contrary of what I believe to be true.So please accept that we both have a different angle of what heaven , God and Hell is.

@KALIS Everything I shared with you is from God's Word and what He said, not me. Of course His Word says He is spiritual and he has a spiritual body. Jesus said that what we as individuals believe, and the choice we make about it, means the difference in spending an eternity in heaven or in hell. So that makes that particular decision, the most important decision of our whole life. That's not judging; that's what Jesus said, and it's what He said, that counts. That makes it something we must not neglect nor ignore, because doing nothing, leaves our soul to chance and keeps one lost and separated from God. That's what He said.

He also said there are not many ways to heaven. Only His way. The text and sayings are only God's way of confirming what we believe, backed up by God's Word. Jesus said not all paths lead to God. Only His way leads to God and no place in His own Word, does He say that heaven is just a state of consciousness. That is man's philosophy.

God's Word speaks the truth. It matters what we believe and why. I believe God over man. We have discussed our views in a respectful way. Thank you for that. We will leave it at that.

@LadyGrace Thank you for an interesting and respectful debate. I wish you happiness in your life

@KALIS We may not see things the same way, but I love you and am glad you love Jesus. I wish you the same. 🤗

@LadyGrace You are kind and loving. God must love you a lot for you to spread his word and love. Your work for God will not go unnoticed. ❤️

@KALIS As are you, sweet lady and friend. God has no favorites. He loves us all the same. Even his enemies who hung Him on the cross, He loved, for He looked up into heaven from the cross and said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do!" This is pure love. ❤️🙏🤗

@LadyGrace 🙏