Religion & Spirituality > Spirituality

Only logged in members can reply and interact with the post.
Join SimilarWorlds for FREE »

John Lennox on Faith

“Faith is not a leap in the dark; it’s the exact opposite. It’s a commitment based on evidence… It is irrational to reduce all faith to blind faith and then subject it to ridicule. That provides a very anti-intellectual and convenient way of avoiding intelligent discussion.”
Professor John Lennox

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

DocSavage · M

Try looking at the big picture. Most people know what a light year is. Including Ken Ham. Scientist use the term, because if you were to put the distance into a standard scale like miles, the number would be so impossibly big the human mind could not comprehend it. So they put on a scale that people can at least get a glimmer of an idea what they’re talking about.
You’re talking the entire universe. The whole infinite enchilada. Time, space, stars, planets , galaxies, black holes, worm holes, super novas ,
Physics, gravity, gamma waves, micro waves, abiogenesis, evolution.
The works. And what do you do with it ?
You squeeze it down to a Genie who just got out of his bottle. You put a human face on it, you tell him what you want, and he customizes it right down the afterlife you hope is waiting for you when you’re done here.
How very , very convenient. (All with no evidence to support it,) all thrown into a 13+ billion year time line, with the human race on the tail end of it.
They just turned the telescopes to another dark patch recently, guess what . They found several million more galaxies, previously unknown. The universe just got that much bigger than anything you could possibly observe. Yet, you figured out the pattern. You see the designer’s hand in all that.
I’m not narcissistic enough to think creation is that easy. Or for that matter, that I am in any way an important part of it.
If you think, you can explain something so old, big , and complex with a “word” then you need to re-examine your world view.
Try the Total Perspective Vortex. Douglas Adam’s made it just for you.

+ ·

1-25 of 30

Mathers · 61-69

You are actually not looking at the big picture you’re looking at the small picture@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers

[b][big]THEMS FIGHTING WORDS ![/big][/b]
Typical Christian response. You think your faith gives you an inside track to god and the spirit world , that Atheist are incapable of understanding. The fact is the exact opposite. Spirituality is far less complicated than you think. In fact it’s childishly simple. Which is why you have Atheist to begin with. It’s you own bigotry and ignorance that prevents you from understanding.

Mathers · 61-69

Of course my faith gives me an inside track to God. That is the whole point of the Christian faith. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. The reason you have atheists like yourself is that the cross of Jesus Christ is an offence to you as St Paul said it was. We have to come to God through the cross and that is an offence to the learning of the world. But the ‘foolishness’ of God is wiser than the ‘wisdom’ of men. What you count as ignorance is actually wisdom. Is the reason they put Jesus on the cross because he offended them like our face offends you @DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
So now you’re working your way to Jesus.

Prometheus, for the love of humanity , was condemned to be chain to a rock while an eagle ate his liver each day for centuries. At night it would grow back. Jesus had one bad weekend, then went back to heaven
He didn’t sacrifice anything for mankind, he’s just the front man for a protection racket.

Mathers · 61-69

You are of course echoing what people have always said when faces with the cross and the resurrection. Why Paul says that the cross is ‘an offence to the Jews and foolishness to the Greeks. But those who believe Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God’. What of course makes you look rather silly is calling it a ‘protection racket’. If you look at the history of the early church there was absolutely nothing to be gained in everything for them to be lost materially by them propagating the resurrection of Christ. Most of them lost their lives for it and all their material goods@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
What makes you think the cross and the resurrection impress me ?
Jesus, only matters if he’s [b]what[/b] he is claimed to be.
You said Genesis is not to be taken literally.
No Adam and Eve, means no fall, no fall means no sin, no sin means we don’t need redemption , nor do we need a redeemer. You can’t have it both ways. You can view as real, or symbolically. Or you can consider it just another part of the myth, and ignore it.

Mathers · 61-69

No I believe that the cross and the resurrection were God’s way of dealing with singing the world and liberating mankind from sin and ultimately redeeming creation from the curse we see around us. As you say Jesus, only matters if he is what he is claiming to be. If he wasn’t then all our faith is built a lie. That is why the resurrection matters@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers [quote] . If he wasn’t then all our faith is built a lie.[/quote]
Now you’re getting the picture.

Mathers · 61-69

The point is though the historical evidence pointed to the fact that he was raised from the dead and so of course Christianity is true. Bad luck sunshine@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
The point is , it’s all just a myth.
You can’t prove a supreme being exist. So, you can’t show that his so called son rose from the dead either. In the real world, it’s impossible. So having doubt is not unreasonable.
However, history is full of myths , legends, and embellished claims of famous people. None of which really happened.
That’s why you have to have faith. It gives you an excuse to believe the unbelievable.

Mathers · 61-69

No that is just your mythical opinion based on your own mythical and illogical worldview. @DocSavage

DocSavage · M

[@Mathers
My worldview is based on reality. How do you consider it to be illogical ?
Nothing I said is magical or outside what can be explained by natural means. Your worldview demands the belief or a completely unsupported, impossible, magical being to fill in the blanks. How is that rational ?

Mathers · 61-69

Exactly - your worldview is based on the material . It is what you perceive as reality. My world view is supported by historical fact of the resurrection of Christ from the dead which opens up a whole new worldview unknown to people like you . I mean common sense means we believe in a creator but revelation means we can know the creator. Fools say in their heart there is no God but God’s revelation comes by grace @DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
There are [b]No[/b] historical facts of any god anywhere in history. Yeah, common sense means we believe in a creator. But rationality we believe because we have the power to create as well. As I explained to yrger/chunkhead, we put a human face on what we don’t understand. The universe is far older, larger, and complex for us to know. That’s why you have so many gods and so many creation myths.
And, it is only natural, of course, that god favors the people who created him. As I said before, Jesus is only important, if he’s who he says he is. He was supposed to return within the lifetime of of his close followers. Still hasn’t happened. Not going to either. But you keep stretching the story , reinterpreting it to cover that fact .
You have no problem accepting that other religions are wrong or false. Why shouldn’t we hold you to the same standards ? In the long run, your hasn’t worked out any better .

Mathers · 61-69

Of course you are totally ignorant of the fact that history reveals that Jesus rose from the dead and his Tolkien said to CS Lewis this one is one myth that happens to be true@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
Not so.
1) you haven’t provided any
2) there aren’t any [b]facts[/b] there’s [b]hearsay[/b]

The Bible is not a reliable source of history. No one has facts , just a record of some of the events of the time. Some of which can be verified, but none of the details.

Mathers · 61-69

The Bible is just as much are reliable sources any other ancient source of history if you know anything about ancient history which of course you don’t. The reason you don’t rate it is because you don’t want to believe it@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
You already admitted Genesis was wrong. Doesn’t help your case.

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
Do you really think it took Moses forty years to cross a desert, the average person walk within two weeks ? That the population of Egypt could handle three million slaves at that time ? Not even going to get into the magic tricks.

Mathers · 61-69

That is why we say that the 10 day journey became a 40 year problem because of the disobedience of the people . You don’t think you are the first person to have thought of that?@DocSavage

This comment is hidden. Show Comment

Mathers · 61-69

I don’t think there’s an educated person alive with any sense who doesn’t believe Jesus existed so where does that leave you? @Lynda70

Lynda70 · F

@Mathers A lot of highly educated and knowledgeable bible scholars question whether the biblical Jesus ever existed as there is no independent evidence that he did.

https://theconversation.com/weighing-up-the-evidence-for-the-historical-jesus-35319

Considering all the things later writers attributed to him (curing incurable diseases; raising the dead etc.), it's just not credible that there are no contemporary records of those alledged events. Even the stories written decades after he was said to have lived, by people who weren't even born during his allegded liftetime, disagree and contradict each other.

I see you've had to resort to silly insults again, as usual.

1-25 of 30