That's what a lot of people have been ask, even the mockers who fulfilled the prophecy found in 2 Peter 3:3-5:
3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers will come, walking after their own lusts 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water by the word of God,
But, when they are confronted with the Truth of God, they run as if a Lion was after them. Just an observation, mind you. The mock, they ridicule, taunt, scoff, and they blow their own horn. And, yet, they refuse to support their gibe.
If a relative was coming to visit you and it takes them an hour to get to your place, why would expect to see them in a minute? They will arrive in the hour that it takes them to get to your place. They will arrive at your place at the proper time. In the same light, Jesus will come at the proper time without fail. This time, it won't be in a manger but as King of kings and Lord of lords.
This is the Truth that can't be refuted.
This is also the Truth that can't be refuted.
Be praying for you all to know the Truth.
This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »
@froggtongue [quote]What the hell are you on about?[/quote]
He's on about heaven and hell, and how to escape hell, according to Jesus, who came to save us from an eternity in hell. None will see heaven, if they refuse Jesus' offer to save them. There are no second chances, once we cross to the other side and are stuck alone for eternity, in a place we never wanted to be and could have avoided. There's no laughter in hell. Only tormenting regrets that they refused God's offer to save them, while they had the chance. If you do nothing to protect your soul and plan for eternity, your sins shall forever keep you separated from Christ. This is one thing we don't want to get wrong. Not for eternity.
@LadyGrace Why now though? I mean, why say something/anything at all? Did somebody hurt somebody and now GodSpeed63 felt he needed to write about punishment to make him feel better?
@froggtongue Not that I know of. The Lord said it is important for us to prepare for the afterlife right now. That is the urgency, because even though we don't know the exact day He's coming, he definitely is, so we want to make sure we are prepared.
@LadyGrace Jesus was saying it's important to repent for the kingdom of God is fast approaching. He also goes on the say surely that many of the people standing before him will not die before this happens. I don't know where the idea of him returning to see this kingdom happens. I think it was from the early Christians trying to make sense of his death since Jesus died before the heavenly kingdom arrived.
There's several more things I could say with all that you've mentioned in your brief statements, but I'll hold off on that for now.
@froggtongue [quote]He also goes on the say surely that many of the people standing before him will not die before this happens. [/quote]
28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Matthew 16:28
Jesus was telling them about a future generation that will be standing there when He comes for His church, those who believe.
[quote] I don't know where the idea of him returning to see this kingdom happens. I think it was from the early Christians trying to make sense of his death since Jesus died before the heavenly kingdom arrived.[/quote]
You forget that Jesus rose back to life on the third day.
@GodSpeed63 [quote]28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Matthew 16:28
Jesus was tell them about a future generation that will be standing there when He comes for His church, those who believe.[/quote] So you're saying Jesus was time traveling into the future and talking to those who would see his coming, or time travelers went to the past and were standing in front of Jesus when he gave that speech?
@froggtongue Check this out. Remember how everyone laughed at Noah because he was building an ark and it had never before rained on the Earth so they thought he was a fool when he said the Lord is coming back and if you don't repent from your evil ways, you will die in a flood. Those people had over 100 years to repent in fact I think it was 700 years to repent but they did not and they just kept getting more evil. They laughed and they made fun of Noah but then the flood came and they died. The same thing is going to happen with the rapture. People don't believe it and they're laughing and mocking those who say there will be a rapture, but the rapture, indeed, shall come. I wrote a post about it. It's not a "maybe", it's going to happen and the Bible describes it. Here it is:
@froggtongue [quote]So you're saying Jesus was time traveling into the future and talking to those who would see his coming, or time travelers went to the past and were standing in front of Jesus when he gave that speech?[quote]
Not at all. Jesus is God, the Son of God and knows the end of this time. He is the same today, and will be the same tomorrow. He has the big picture of this to come and we do not.
@GodSpeed63 I am not making any claims as to there being any time travel. I was asking that question to you. If Jesus said to the crowd "there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom,” assuming "Son of Man" refers back to himself, then how is that talking about a generation of people who is not standing in front of him?
@LadyGrace I can see the use of the word "see" to mean that to us in our modern day English. I wonder what the original Greek use of it is. But without that piece of knowledge, it doesn't sound to me like that's what he was meaning.
@froggtongue When taken in full context and not just one verse, Jesus comments to His closest followers. He has affirmed His role as the Messiah (Matthew 16:16–17) and declared that He will come in glory to [b]reward[/b] each person according to their deeds (Matthew 16:27). Now He adds that some standing near to hear those words, would not die before seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.
Most scholars and commentators agree He was referring to the "transfiguration," literally the very next event, mentioned by Matthew. Jesus will be transfigured from His fully human form into His glorious kingdom appearance as the Son of God. His face will shine like the sun, and His clothes will become white as light (Matthew 17:1–2). Peter, James, and John were eyewitnesses to this event. The disciples would not die before seeing Him resurrected, or seeing the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, or seeing increasing numbers of people believe in Jesus following His resurrection and return to heaven.
@froggtongue [quote]Nobody was speaking of the rapture. There's no mention of a rapture anywhere in the bible. That's totally an idea outside of it. [/quote] Are you sure about that?
How do you analzye this passage?
1 THESSALONIANS 4:15{PHILLIPS} = "Now we don’t want you, my brothers, to be in any doubt about those who “fall asleep” in death, or to grieve over them like men who have no hope. After all, if we believe that Jesus died and rose again from death, then we can believe that God will just as surely bring with Jesus all who are “asleep” in him. Here we have a definite message from the Lord. It is that those who are still living when he comes will not in any way precede those who have previously fallen asleep. One word of command, one shout from the archangel, one blast from the trumpet of God and the Lord himself will come down from Heaven! Those who have died in Christ will be the first to rise, and then we who are still living on the earth will be swept up with them into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And after that we shall be with him for ever."
@LadyGrace I don't see it say directly in Matthew 16:16-17 where Jesus refers to himself as the messiah Jewish messiah. I can see it as something that's inferred. But you do bring up that interesting part where a person is rewarded for the deeds and nothing about their faith or belief. Matthew 16:27 seems to be saying that it's the people who do good works will be rewarded, regardless of whatever the person might believe.
@Diotrephes There is no word "rapture" in any of that. But I can see I needed to have read that whole passage before I said what I did. It certainly seems to be the idea of such. I would like to study all this much more and be more knowledgeable on these subjects.
@GodSpeed63 @LadyGrace @Diotrephes – I love these discussions and finding out more. Perhaps a group of Christian bible study would be a good one to make for all who are equally as interested.
@froggtongue [quote]Matthew 16:27 seems to be saying that it's the people who do good works will be rewarded, regardless of whatever the person might believe.[/quote]
Absolutely not! Don't get "Works" mixed up. There's two things the Bible says about good works. It matters a [b]great[/b] deal what we believe! Because Jesus says in Romans that we cannot get to Heaven by good works and He is very adamant about that. Good works only count [b]after[/b] one has been saved. In other words, what we do for Christ [b]after[/b] we are saved. Good works count, but [b]never before one is saved[/b]. Nobody gets to Heaven by being good, because there's no such thing. We are still all born with a sinful nature and our "goodness" will never get us to Heaven, Jesus said so. We are saved by grace, through faith, which has nothing whatsoever to do with good works: Ephesians 2:8-9
God's Word says that we are saved by grace, through faith, in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works. Grace alone. Faith alone. Grace alone, means that God loves, forgives, and saves us NOT because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ on the cross to pay for our sins. Salvation has absolutely nothing to do with our performance.
@LadyGrace Ephesians was one of the letters written by Paul, if I remember. What you're bringing up is what Paul believes, which might not be what Jesus himself was saying. You just quoted to me the very verse Jesus said, [quote]@froggtongue When taken in full context and not just one verse, Jesus comments to His closest followers. He has affirmed His role as the Messiah (Matthew 16:16–17) and declared that He will come in glory to reward each person according to their deeds (Matthew 16:27).[/quote] Read it again, "to reward each person according to their [b]deeds[/b]." It seems Paul is saying something very different from what Jesus was saying. After all, Jesus didn't come to abolish the law in the least. If anything, the Jews were supposed to uphold the covenant even more strictly, yes?
@froggtongue now I see where the mix-up is. Godspeed was referring to only one verse here .....2 Peter 3:3-5. Which speaks of the Second Coming. And then you mixed that up with Matthew. Those are two different things the Bible is talking about. We are only talking about this post being about the Second Coming. And then you said there was no such thing as the rapture, and I went on to show you the verses where the Bible does speak of the rapture.
What does 2 Peter 3:3-5 speaks of those saying "The world just keeps going on and on in the same way it always has. So Jesus must not be coming back." As a result, these deceivers convince others that God's other promises are not true. If there is no return of Christ, their argument goes, there must not be a judgment coming for sin.
@froggtongue The disciples never contradicted what was taught to them. Paul believed what Jesus said. He would never contradict him. There will always be confusion if we try to mix verses on different subjects. We all need to stay on the subject of the post, scoffers coming in the last days, before Jesus' Second Coming, claiming he's not coming at all.
